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Post by Nowhere Man on May 5, 2014 3:27:49 GMT -5
Speaking of Reed's pipe, I love how Kirby used pipe's to clearly denote that a specific character was an authority figure. I'm thinking of carrying around a pipe in my every day life to see if it helps me command authority like I've always wanted.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 5, 2014 12:14:28 GMT -5
Do they still edit the the pipe out of reprints (I haven't noticed lately).. I know they were editing Wolverine's cigs in trades for a while.
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Post by Miss Fantastic on May 5, 2014 12:22:41 GMT -5
Speaking of Reed's pipe, I love how Kirby used pipe's to clearly denote that a specific character was an authority figure. I'm thinking of carrying around a pipe in my every day life to see if it helps me command authority like I've always wanted. Everyone will have to forgive my DC 'ignorance'* on this, but IIRC, wasn't the leader of the Challengers of the Unknown, Prof, a pipe smoker as well? I don't disagree with those that the Challengers were a template for the Fantastic Four...they were basically the FF sans superpowers and a female. Which reminds me, the Challengers of the Fantastic Amalgam one-shot was pretty downright fun...hate there was never a followup to that. Anyways, back to Reed and his pipe...even if he wasn't my overall favorite member, and despite how 'un-PC' it may be to say these days, I actually dig the fact that Reed was a pipe smoker over everyone else's (or at least Ben Grimm, Nick Fury, and Wolverine's) cigar chomper. When it was acceptable to have illustrated, the pipe honestly made Reed distinguishing that much more from the rest of the Marvel Universe and its little caucus of geniuses. Other than one or two instances where Bruce Banner sported a pipe (and I want to say those were most likely alternative versions), Reed has been far and away the predominant pipe bearer of the MU. * - And I'm going to say this before I get any and all comments/PMs/e-mails/what-have-ya asking 'Don't you like/talk about anything else comic books besides Fantastic Four?!'...I have tried a few times to get into other titles over the years, and they just cannot do it for me like my much beloved Fantastics, warts and all, at the end of the day, month, and year. That said, I've reached the conclusion sometime ago that I really am a FF fan to the degree of even over the companies and industry themselves. So, warned y'all I was/am nuts...
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 12:26:40 GMT -5
Fury's commander in the Army, Sam Sawyer, smoked a pipe as well. Not to mention Professor Xavier --
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Post by Miss Fantastic on May 5, 2014 12:37:39 GMT -5
I figure there's a couple, if not a few Marvel Universe pipe smokers besides Reed that would burn me in a trivia contest...like Sam Sawyer and Professor X (which, actually, is a 'learn something new' for me...then again, I cannot ever lay claim to even remotely being a semi-fan of the X-Men), but I believe it's a safe bet that Reed lasted the longest with sporting his pipe, at least up through the 90's when Paul Ryan stunningly wasn't afraid to illustrate Reed with his pipe, making him the MU's premier pipe smoker. From the back of a 1992 Impel MU trading card: And from Fantastic Four #400's 'after Reed's funeral' featurette: To show I'm definitely not devoid of humor, this pic relating to the subject at hand never fails to crack me up...now there's a GREAT April Fool's/Halloween prank idea.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 5, 2014 12:39:18 GMT -5
In the 70s an entirely different type of pipe rose to prominence.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 5, 2014 12:46:32 GMT -5
* - And I'm going to say this before I get any and all comments/PMs/e-mails/what-have-ya asking 'Don't you like/talk about anything else comic books besides Fantastic Four?!'...I have tried a few times to get into other titles over the years, and they just cannot do it for me like my much beloved Fantastics, warts and all, at the end of the day, month, and year. That said, I've reached the conclusion sometime ago that I really am a FF fan to the degree of even over the companies and industry themselves. So, warned y'all I was/am nuts... I can see why someone would get that obsessed with the FF. I do read a lot of other comics and there's probably a few that I like more than the FF when it comes to shorter runs (like the Ditko Spider-Man issues).
But when it comes to the long haul, I don't think there's anything like the first 200 issues of the FF. (And 200 to 300 is pretty good as well.) I started collecting FF about #165 and I never missed an issue until the 290s (when I mostly quit reading comics for a time). For a while, I picked up odd back issues of the FF here and there (some through reprints) and in the 1990s, I decided to read all the Kirby issues, so I got the Marvel masterworks for the first 50 issues and then got all the floppies for #51 to #116. There's a few stumbles along the way, but mostly it's all golden.
But there's a gap there with a bunch of issues I still hadn't read, and I recently got some of the volumes of the Marvel Essentials from the library to fill the gap. And just a couple of days ago, I read FF #137, thus completing my project (started back in the mid-1970s) to read all the issues of the FF of the Silver and Bronze ages.
As much as I like Spider-Man for the same era (there's still a bunch of those I haven't read), I can see why The Fantastic Four was - and is - known as The World's Greatest Comics Magazine.
(The big revelation of the batch of issues I just read is Thundra. I knew who she was (I've had the issues with Mahkizmo since the late 1970s), but I had never read her very earliest appearances. Some great comics! (And that Ramona Fradon issue! Is that crazy?))
Miss Fantastic, I can totally see where you're coming from!
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Post by Miss Fantastic on May 5, 2014 13:04:43 GMT -5
Well, danke for being at least one person who understands, Hoosier. And as for the REST OF YOU...nah, y'all are alright. But yes, the Fantastic Four have had the astonishing feat of having not one, but two INCREDIBLE lengthy creative runs (and really, three if you count Wolfman's awe-inspiring run, as I really like to do to the point of it being my third most favorite). Not many titles can lay claim to that. But as much as an uber-collector and worshiper of the FF as I am and pretty much always will be, I certainly am immediate to concede that the book, just like its title characters, has never been absolutely perfect, and as there are creative runs I instantaneously recommend, there are also ones that I am rapid-fire in urging to avoid like the plague. I'm not afraid to admit that I do believe I am the pickiest comic fan I know, and to the point where if the FF aren't done right in my eyes and mind, the creative run and its issues find themselves on my personal backburner to be for completist collecting only. And there's no telling how long it may take me to get to some of those (*cough*Claremont, Millar, and Fraction*cough*), especially in this day and age of ridiculous-beyond-belief priced variants possibly obliterating my dreams of having the complete regular FF series. *sighs and shakes a fist in the direction of the House of Ideas*
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 6, 2014 22:53:59 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #4
Written by Stan Lee
Pencils by Jack Kirby
Inks by Sol Brodsky
Cover:
The Sub-Mariner is back and he's gonna be in trouble, Hey na Hey na, Subby's back. And he's stealin' Sue the victim. And he's headin' to the water. He's been gone for such a long time...hey na, hey na, Subby's back.
The Story:
Johnny has gone off and the rest of the Four are in the Baxter Building worrying about him. Ben, as is his want in these early issues, is being dick. The plan to find him, appears to be for them to wander the city asking everyone they see. Reed is clearly a master strategist. Sue wanders around invisible. At some point she stops and drinks a soda while invisible, scaring the bejeebus out of a customer of the soda fountain. No clue how she ordered it while invisible so we have to believe she stole some poor schlubs soda. Reed plucks some random teen off his motorcycle so he can ask him if he's seen Johnny. The laws of physics, which presumably Reed is aware of, indicate that said motorcycle is going to fall down and be damaged without a rider. Nice job, Reed.
Johnny is actually at Swanson's Garage working on hot rods with his friends as he is want to do. We get a demonstration of his increased control over his flame. We also see hip teens wearing green plaid jacket and bow ties to the garage. Jack was clearly in touch with the teen zeitgeist. Ben shows that he's actually the brains of the outfit by going to a place Johnny is known to hang out with is pals. He then proceeds to break down the wall of the garage to get in because he can “feel the heat” on the other side. He doesn't, however, know if there's someone standing where his fist is going. Or anything explosive or flammable, which could have added manslaughter or arson to his now pending felony injury to property charge. Finding Johnny flamed on, Ben picks up a stray jalopy and threatens to crush him with it. When Johnny flames off, Ben throws the jalopy through a different wall. At least on more count of Felony injury to property. Ben then takes a swing at Johnny (that will get him home and back happy with the group) but turns back to human Ben Grimm long enough for Johnny to fly away.
Johnny flees to The Bowery where he hits a flophouse and is reading an old Sub-Mariner Comic. It's pointed out to him that there's an old bum there that is as strong as Subby used to be. When the rummy refuses to tear a phonebook in half he is, of course, attacked by a half dozen or so men. Johnny defuses the beating they're getting and then uses his flame to shave the bum (that's gotta stink to high heaven). Lo and Behold it's the Sub-Mariner. Serendipity abounds. Reed is still searching for Johnny in New York person by person as Sue wanders aimlessly invisibly. Johnny dumps Namor in to the sea which revives his memory. It also revives his patented Sub-Mariner shorts which he has apparently been wearing since his disappearance.
Namor swims to Atlantis which is abandoned and has “radioactive” water. This leads to the inevitable conclusion that the surface dwellers have done atomic testing there. Namor then speeds back to the dock where Johnny is still standing. Now either he swims as fast as The Flash or Atlantis was incredibly close to New York City. In which case they probably shouldn't have been doing atomic testing there. He informs Johnny he's declaring war on the surface before going back in the water to prepare. Seems like he could have just done it without the declaration, but...yeah. Johnny rather than try to fight him lets him go and sends up a flare summoning the team. They're all back together again...with a villain coming to them. And Ben looks like a rocky baboon on the 2/3 splash to start chapter 4. Seriously...the Thing just looks awful for the first four issues.
Namor uses a “trumpet-horn” to wake GIGANTO, a really big whaley monster with arms and legs from his slumber. Apparently, Giganto is much further from New York than Atlantis was because the army and the city have ample warning that Giganto is coming. He attacks the city and the army and the FF can't stop him. Until he has to rest. It seems coming ashore and crushing buildings has tired him out. So Ben straps an atomic bomb to his back and enters the belly of the beast. He escapes in the nick of time as the bomb goes off, killing Giganto and irradiating the largest city in the U.S.
It's all for naught though, because Namor boasts that he can use the horn to summon a hoard of undersea monsters. Why he didn't do this in the first place is an open question. Maybe he was taking strategy lessons from Reed. Sue invisibly takes the horn from Namor, but is caught and turns visible. He instantly asks her to be his bride offering to call off his war on humanity. She reluctantly agrees, but that just makes him mad as she should clearly want to be the bride of this angry weird looking dude she's known for less than ten minutes. Johnny again saves the day by whipping up an air tornado that sweeps Namor into the sea...which somehow stops his reign of terror because he drops the trumpet and can't possibly just look for it again. I guess it's because he's “in the deepest part of the vast ocean”. No plans to go and defeat the guy who almost destroyed New York...but they'll be ready if he comes back again.
Thoughts…
At this point Johnny is by far the most effective member of the team. He pretty well single-handedly defeated the last two opponents. Ben is an asshole who is basically good for breaking down wall. Sue is a living hostage. Reed...well he's pretty much not been much use for anything thus far.
The return of The Sub-Mariner reunites Timely's first two great heros. And he's villainous as he was in his earliest appearances.
Sue keeps referring to Johnny as The Torch which is weird. He's her little brother. She calls Reed by name. Odd.
The plot…not without flaws, but much better than the last issue.
The art continues to improve. This is the best issue so far. Ben is still the weak link here. If anything he looks worse than the last couple of issues.
The toll: One stolen soda. One motorcycle. Two walls of a repair shop. One jalopy. Namor destroys a large portion of at least the New York waterfront.
Grade for historic importance: A-
Story - B-
Art – C +
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 6, 2014 23:11:46 GMT -5
Great review Slam. I think that trumpet horn comes back many years later.Probably by Roy Thomas who would never let any slight plot line dangle if he can help it.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 6, 2014 23:35:23 GMT -5
I love Fantastic Four #4. I used to have a somewhat beat-up copy that I got for $25 in the late 1970s.
Yeah, you can go through it and nitpick all the stuff that doesn't make sense, but there is so much great material here. Johnny in the Bowery, shaving Namor with his flame? Come on! That's Mighty Marvel Myth-Making right there! And the ugly, ugly lumpy Thing saves the day by blowing up Namor's monster! I also love the scene with the stream of refugees as they evacuate New York.
One of the strongest of the early issues. This is one of the first old issues I read (it was reprinted in a Marvel Treasury Edition) when I first started reading FF in the late 1970s and it made me a huge fan of early FF.
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Post by Cei-U! on May 6, 2014 23:42:08 GMT -5
Great review Slam. I think that trumpet horn comes back many years later.Probably by Roy Thomas who would never let any slight plot line dangle if he can help it. The Horn of Proteus resurfaces (pun intended) in Sub-Mariner #21 by Marie Severin and (wait for it) Roy Thomas. Cei-U! I summon ish's uncanny prescience!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 6, 2014 23:46:07 GMT -5
Great review Slam. I think that trumpet horn comes back many years later.Probably by Roy Thomas who would never let any slight plot line dangle if he can help it. The Horn of Proteus resurfaces (pun intended) in Sub-Mariner #21 by Marie Severin and (wait for it) Roy Thomas. Cei-U! I summon ish's uncanny prescience! At the rate I'm going I'll get to that story...when I'm older and greyer.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 6, 2014 23:50:10 GMT -5
I love Fantastic Four #4. I used to have a somewhat beat-up copy that I got for $25 in the late 1970s. Yeah, you can go through it and nitpick all the stuff that doesn't make sense, but there is so much great material here. Johnny in the Bowery, shaving Namor with his flame? Come on! That's Mighty Marvel Myth-Making right there! And the ugly, ugly lumpy Thing saves the day by blowing up Namor's monster! I also love the scene with the stream of refugees as they evacuate New York. One of the strongest of the early issues. This is one of the first old issues I read (it was reprinted in a Marvel Treasury Edition) when I first started reading FF in the late 1970s and it made me a huge fan of early FF. As stated earlier, I loved these issues when I was a kid. A lot more than the later issues. And Giganto really is a cool critter...other than tiring easily.
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Post by Miss Fantastic on May 6, 2014 23:50:39 GMT -5
FF #1-3 are quite historic for title-centric reasons. But I'd dare say that FF #4 was the second most historic issue for the modern Marvel Universe, and because it was the first transferal of a Golden Ager into the Silver Age AND debut of the modern MU's second ever 'hero' character, even if he did start out a villain and has drifted in the grey area on/off through the years. Certainly where the FF started to develop some teeth and chops...although, things would definitely really ramp up for both the FF and modern MU in the next issue. Fine review (and really reviews thus far, as should have been stated earlier) and good job, Slam! An addendum: For sometime, I've wondered how the 'Giganto' name became associated with Mole Man's FF #1 cover monster, when the name was clearly first used and really still belongs to Namor's ginormous whale. One of those deals I suspect ranks up there with how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop...
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