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Post by Nowhere Man on May 25, 2015 19:06:56 GMT -5
The Illuminati is too close to the end of Moore's Miracle Man for comfort. Moore understood, with Miracle Man and Watchmen, that taking superheroes in that direction is effectively the end. I think that was, in part, what he was trying to say and why he thought it was absurd when Quesada told him he wanted to create comics that reflected Watchman and Miracle Man.
I just don't think there is anything wrong having stories where the heroes are idealized. You need stories where things are black, white and gray, but you also need something to aspire to. A hero can be noble and as heroic as any Silver Age character, and still have problems and quirks. Most modern writers seem to struggle with this.
I'm a fan of morally ambiguous characters (Love Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc.) but I also like inherently good characters, from Superman to Luke Skywalker. I don't like to see inherently good characters being morphed into morally ambiguous characters overnight.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 26, 2015 22:02:39 GMT -5
Hmmmm, I think I will jump in and respond to this. I , like dupersuper, followed and read the New Avengers incursion story and I enjoyed it. I stopped buying the title because it was too long without a payoff in sight at 4 dollars a pop. My opinion about the new Secret Wars series is that a person walking into Barnes and No ez seeing he collected edition will buy it and scratch their heads wondering what happened before page 1. To me, as a tpb it becomes a fail. If you buy Watchmen , DKR or even the first Secret Wars, you need not buy any additional materials to get a complete story. Whinning ? I don't think so. Fair enough mate, at least thats a rational reason we can debate or not. Just feel like too many come online and whine about the new stuff...just cos its new. In hindsight I should have chosen my words a bit better...  As for the important part, the comics, while Im enjoying Secret Wars and have liked most of Marvels modern events, there are those that annoy me too. I loathed Fear Itself and Dark Reign and some of the others are very up and down. Usually the core event books are ok though ...ie I really like Civil War and Secret Invasion. ...hmm while Im here, you and Trebor talking about the accessibility of new stories is quite valid, though I would say that we should wait till the series is done to judge how well they convey that side of things shouldnt we. If its all explained as the series goes then whats the issue ? |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 27, 2015 6:09:12 GMT -5
Hmmmm, I think I will jump in and respond to this. I , like dupersuper, followed and read the New Avengers incursion story and I enjoyed it. I stopped buying the title because it was too long without a payoff in sight at 4 dollars a pop. My opinion about the new Secret Wars series is that a person walking into Barnes and No ez seeing he collected edition will buy it and scratch their heads wondering what happened before page 1. To me, as a tpb it becomes a fail. If you buy Watchmen , DKR or even the first Secret Wars, you need not buy any additional materials to get a complete story. Whinning ? I don't think so. Fair enough mate, at least thats a rational reason we can debate or not. Just feel like too many come online and whine about the new stuff...just cos its new. In hindsight I should have chosen my words a bit better... As for the important part, the comics, while Im enjoying Secret Wars and have liked most of Marvels modern events, there are those that annoy me too. I loathed Fear Itself and Dark Reign and some of the others are very up and down. Usually the core event books are ok though ...ie I really like Civil War and Secret Invasion. ...hmm while Im here, you and Trebor talking about the accessibility of new stories is quite valid, though I would say that we should wait till the series is done to judge how well they convey that side of things shouldnt we. If its all explained as the series goes then whats the issue ? It's funny you should mention the Events, I too, didn't like the any of them since Secret Invasion and Civil War. Original Sins was really bad. I'm glad I read it as part of Marvel Unlimited. |
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Post by Dizzy D on May 27, 2015 6:19:55 GMT -5
I generally don't like the events themselves, but I usually do like some series we get out of it.
Few examples:
House of M > X-Factor
World War Hulk/Dark Reign > Incredible Hercules.
Secret Invasion > Captain Britain and MI13
Fear Itself > Journey into Mystery.
I think the only events I liked the last 10 years or so, where the cosmic ones (Annhilation and most of its sequels).
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Post by Icctrombone on May 27, 2015 21:11:19 GMT -5
I generally don't like the events themselves, but I usually do like some series we get out of it. Few examples: House of M > X-Factor World War Hulk/Dark Reign > Incredible Hercules. Secret Invasion > Captain Britain and MI13 Fear Itself > Journey into Mystery. I think the only events I liked the last 10 years or so, where the cosmic ones (Annhilation and most of its sequels). I missed Annhilation the first time around and only read it when In got MU. It really wasn't bad at all. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 30, 2015 6:57:59 GMT -5
Fair enough mate, at least thats a rational reason we can debate or not. Just feel like too many come online and whine about the new stuff...just cos its new. In hindsight I should have chosen my words a bit better... As for the important part, the comics, while Im enjoying Secret Wars and have liked most of Marvels modern events, there are those that annoy me too. I loathed Fear Itself and Dark Reign and some of the others are very up and down. Usually the core event books are ok though ...ie I really like Civil War and Secret Invasion. ...hmm while Im here, you and Trebor talking about the accessibility of new stories is quite valid, though I would say that we should wait till the series is done to judge how well they convey that side of things shouldnt we. If its all explained as the series goes then whats the issue ? It's funny you should mention the Events, I too, didn't like the any of them since Secret Invasion and Civil War. Original Sins was really bad. I'm glad I read it as part of Marvel Unlimited. Have to admit to quite enjoying Original Sin, and Infinity for that matter. Enough that Im tempted to order the hardcover collections on Amazon. I tend to loath the majority of tie-in books tho, there arent many at all that are worth the time of day. On subject, the wonder of Secret Wars is the variety of interesting titles it has thrown up for us to read. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,207 
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Post by Confessor on Aug 12, 2015 6:29:14 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks that Marvel naming their latest even "Secret Wars" is really, really lame? I mean, I get that it's set on battleworld or some version of battleworld and all, but even calling this event Secret Wars III would've been preferable to just appropriating the name of the original mid-'80s Secret Wars series. I dunno, I understand that the writers might be trying to homage the original event, but I just think giving it the same title is spectacularly uninspired, to the point of laziness.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 12, 2015 8:41:34 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks that Marvel naming their latest even "Secret Wars" is really, really lame? I mean, I get that it's set on battleworld or some version of battleworld and all, but even calling this event Secret Wars III would've been preferable to just appropriating the name of the original mid-'80s Secret Wars series. I dunno, I understand that the writers might be trying to homage the original event, but I just think giving it the same title is spectacularly uninspired, to the point of laziness. I think that "Secret wars" is the Marvel equivalent of DC's "Crisis": a title you give any crossover that's supposed to change everything forever and blahblahblah. I agree that it's definitely not an inspired choice because the original Secret wars was rather ordinary, the second was pretty bad and the third (secret war without an s) was entirely forgettable. Nah, the best title reflecting the major changes planned for the comics line would have been... Disney World!!! |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,207
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Post by Confessor on Aug 12, 2015 8:53:47 GMT -5
Nah, the best title reflecting the major changes planned for the comics line would have been... Disney World!!! You're a cynical, cynical man...but I like you.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 14:21:31 GMT -5
Of course the original series was not called Secret Wars, it's official title was Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars according to the indicia, then came Secret Wars II, then in 2004-5 there was Secret War (no plural) by Bendis, so technically this is the first series ever titled only Secret Wars....
borrowing from Cei-U..I summon the technicalities and minutiae....
-M
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,207
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Post by Confessor on Aug 12, 2015 15:38:02 GMT -5
Of course the original series was not called Secret Wars, it's official title was Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars according to the indicia, then came Secret Wars II, then in 2004-5 there was Secret War (no plural) by Bendis, so technically this is the first series ever titled only Secret Wars.... borrowing from Cei-U..I summon the technicalities and minutiae.... ...and Pedantry. You forgot pedantry. |
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