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Post by senatortombstone on Oct 6, 2018 21:13:15 GMT -5
And I keep going back to what Howard himself said about the "history" of Conan and his stories-they're yarns told round the campfire and while he was flattered fans like them enough to try to put together a life history of Conan, in his mind there wasn't a full story, just legends told from here and there, and legends vary with the tellers and the audience, so there is no one true story to be told, as long as the stories entertain (and sell and put a few dollars in Howard's accounts). So any attempt to create cohesive histories and chronologies is fan work (though looked upon kindly by Howard he didn't necessarily endorse such efforts) not writer's work. The writer's work is to tell entertaining stories that sell. The Conan stories were not presented legends, I disagree with you on that point. They were indeed, as you say, meant to be yarns told around a campfire by someone who lived countless adventures “... and then THIS happened to me!” but they are not supposed to be a collection of ill-remembered fanciful stories where anything goes. Howard was amazingly consistent in his world building, and as far as what he wrote went, there was one “true” story to be told. The good pastiche writers follow that path. Howard never bothered to publish a timeline for his tales, but he did confirm that the first known such attempt (by Miller, back in the thirties) was very close to what he had envisioned himself. So he did have some form of outline that he used himself. Roy Thomas did his best to adhere to such a timeline that would reflect Howard’s vision. The attention to such details goes beyond mere fannish obsession; it iies at the core of any well crafted fantasy in which a make-believe world is created. The believability of the Hybirian world is almost half the fun of these tales! Whenever Conan was written by someone else than the people listed above, we’d get flying horses and cloud cities and Conan having trained as a ninja. It robs the Hyborian age of its carefully built quasi-historical feel, which is a darn shame considering how much work went into creating it in the first place. Now if you’re willing to overlook the ill-fitting nature of such themes in the overall Conan storyline, then more power to you! I’m certainly going to begrudge another fan’s enjoyment of a book. Personally, though, I don’t enjoy things like DeMatteis, Jones, Fleisher or Hama’s Conan, and will not encourage Marvel by purchasing its books if they feature less than a Conan I can recognize. As I said above, though, I’m ambivalent, not squarely against to the idea of new Conan books. I just want them done a certain way, the way of Thomas, Busiek and Truman. Howard first! The new writer, Jason Aaron, seems to be pretty enthusiastic about his Conan assignment: It looks like he is engrossing himself in the source material. Hopefully, he gets some mentoring from Roy Thomas. Again, the one big win is color reprints of the original Marvel Conan books. I was not aware of these new Glénat Conan adaptations. Do you now where I might acquire them? Might have to learn French, but it would be worth it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 22:56:05 GMT -5
The Conan stories were not presented legends, I disagree with you on that point. They were indeed, as you say, meant to be yarns told around a campfire by someone who lived countless adventures “... and then THIS happened to me!” but they are not supposed to be a collection of ill-remembered fanciful stories where anything goes. Howard was amazingly consistent in his world building, and as far as what he wrote went, there was one “true” story to be told. The good pastiche writers follow that path. Howard never bothered to publish a timeline for his tales, but he did confirm that the first known such attempt (by Miller, back in the thirties) was very close to what he had envisioned himself. So he did have some form of outline that he used himself. Roy Thomas did his best to adhere to such a timeline that would reflect Howard’s vision. The attention to such details goes beyond mere fannish obsession; it iies at the core of any well crafted fantasy in which a make-believe world is created. The believability of the Hybirian world is almost half the fun of these tales! Whenever Conan was written by someone else than the people listed above, we’d get flying horses and cloud cities and Conan having trained as a ninja. It robs the Hyborian age of its carefully built quasi-historical feel, which is a darn shame considering how much work went into creating it in the first place. Now if you’re willing to overlook the ill-fitting nature of such themes in the overall Conan storyline, then more power to you! I’m certainly going to begrudge another fan’s enjoyment of a book. Personally, though, I don’t enjoy things like DeMatteis, Jones, Fleisher or Hama’s Conan, and will not encourage Marvel by purchasing its books if they feature less than a Conan I can recognize. As I said above, though, I’m ambivalent, not squarely against to the idea of new Conan books. I just want them done a certain way, the way of Thomas, Busiek and Truman. Howard first! The new writer, Jason Aaron, seems to be pretty enthusiastic about his Conan assignment: It looks like he is engrossing himself in the source material. Hopefully, he gets some mentoring from Roy Thomas. Again, the one big win is color reprints of the original Marvel Conan books. I was not aware of these new Glénat Conan adaptations. Do you now where I might acquire them? Might have to learn French, but it would be worth it. You have to buy them form a European vendor. Conan is public domain in France, but not in the US, so US trademark laws prohibit the sale of anything using Conan that is not licensed from the trademark holders (i.e. Conan properties) and these Glenat books are not licensed through them. Titan usually does English language version of some of the Glenat stuff (they did the Moorcock books for instance), but with the trademarks held by Paradox (the owners of Conan properties) they cannot do an English language version of these to be sold in the US. Roquefrot is in Canada, and may have a way of getting these, but none of the folks I know who own comic shops here in the US have been able to order these for me, and I haven't yet looked into ordering form Europe via online sales so I am not sure if they are available that way to US customers. -M
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Post by luciano on Nov 6, 2018 9:32:12 GMT -5
KheshattaScript by Roy Thomas Art by John Buscema and Ernie Chan After leaving the burning city of Gazal last issue, Conan finally reaches the City of Magicians, Kheshatta, in the south of Stygia. I appreciate the effort made to get this story to agree with a previous rendition of the city, back in CtB #85, down to those big towers and its demonic statues standing guard at its gate. The Cimmerian manages to steal camels from an incoming caravn and pass as a trader to get access to the city, which as most Stygian towns doesn’t much care for foreigners. I love the way Conan’s reaction to a “city of magicians” is described; it’s really a classic. “(…) he has pictured it in his mind as a place where mages cast colourful spells on every corner, while winged carpets soar unendingly from spire to spire. The reality, he soon sees, is decidedly more mundane. Soldiers, tradesmen and slaves fill the streets of Kheshatta… as they have in every inhabited city’s he’s ever seen.” Too cool! I admit that I, too, had pictured a city much more sinister than this one; certainly one as gloomy and eerie as Khemi, on the coast of the western ocean, as seen in SSoC #10. Due reference is given to those who had told Conan of Kheshatta in the past : Livia, from CtB #104 (misidentified as Olivia), and Zula, most notably in CtB #85. SSoC#89, a forgettable story in which Conan is supposed to have been in Kheshatta, is thankfully ignored. Conan tries to stable his newly-acquired camel, but his way of speaking Stygian betrays him as an imposter and he is clobbered from behind by an enterprising stable-owner who delivers him to the slave market. The Cimmerian therefore ends up on the auction block. Oh, the ignominy! Bidding starts slowly, until the mighty pecs of the barbarian attract the attention of a rich woman, the lady Athyr-Bast.
WOW! I can't believe i found this forum, this thread, these posts! Appreciate it so much, i have no idea any of this existed and i am so glad to find that we have so many people here who love reading Conan as much as i do -- or maybe even more!
I have acquired several volumes of the Dark Horse "phone-book" omnibus reprints of SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN and i been reading them pretty much everyday for about a 10 days now and i started with volumes 19 and 20 and i have been following this thread for a few days now... I am stunned by the amount of great info that you guys share here and i am devouring all of it with gusto! I just thought i would register and say "thanks a lot!" to you guys and also join the discussion I am in "Keshatta" now and i have just read the "bidding war" for Conan and i thought the way it was built was absolutely brilliant! guess that is it for now! thanks Luciano
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 6, 2018 18:46:42 GMT -5
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Post by Conan growls on Nov 9, 2018 14:19:55 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
If any of you have issue 114 handy, I am sure some of the art is not by Rudy Nebres! Look at page 51 and also the top half of page 37. Or am I imagining it?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 11, 2018 8:55:06 GMT -5
Hi Guys, If any of you have issue 114 handy, I am sure some of the art is not by Rudy Nebres! Look at page 51 and also the top half of page 37. Or am I imagining it? I wouldn’t have noticed on my own, but now that you mention it, yeah... there something not quite right there. The inking still looks like Rudy, but it could be someone trying to imitate his style. Conan’s face looks different, some anatomy is a bit wonky... it could be a case of rushing through the page, but it might be retouching. (There are other instances of art retouching in SSoC).
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Post by Conan growls on Nov 11, 2018 16:22:01 GMT -5
Thanks for replying RR Yes its stiff like when Ernie Chan does his art when not inking Buscema. No natural body movement and flow. Like you said almost like he was giving someone shot at the ropes. Also check pages: 51, 52, 53. I know what you mean by the rushed art like at the end of his in #121. But I think you are right too. I think it is someone else. Shame that his most well drawn issue of SSC 107 is a TU-- because of the story line with his "arch nemesis" intent on revenge. Can't stand that guy. It's too painful. BTW do you think the art will be cool in the new SSC? Will it be magazine size? In Colour? Thanks man!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 17:38:46 GMT -5
Thanks for replying RR Yes its stiff like when Ernie Chan does his art when not inking Buscema. No natural body movement and flow. Like you said almost like he was giving someone shot at the ropes. Also check pages: 51, 52, 53. I know what you mean by the rushed art like at the end of his in #121. But I think you are right too. I think it is someone else. Shame that his most well drawn issue of SSC 107 is a TU-- because of the story line with his "arch nemesis" intent on revenge. Can't stand that guy. It's too painful. BTW do you think the art will be cool in the new SSC? Will it be magazine size? In Colour? Thanks man! Here's a sample page from Ron Garney from the first issue of the new Savage Sword. Comic sized not magazine, in color not black and white. -M
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Post by luciano on Nov 11, 2018 20:56:41 GMT -5
Thanks mate!
Hey let me ask you something...
I was checking some old CONAN SAGA issues where Roy Thomas presented a "Conan Comics Chronology"...
For example, on Conan Saga #87 Roy presents the "part #11" of "Conan Comics Chronology", correspondent to the "Barachan and Buccaneer" years of Conan, which are the stories I am reading right now...
Well, knowing that this "Conan Comics Chronology" exists, which is great, I would like to ask you this:
Is this "Conan Comics Chronology" published on Conan Saga in the 90s a complete chronology of all Conan stories published by Marvel up to that point?
Is there an "updated" or "complete" "Conan Comics Chronology" including the Dark Horse material?
Thanks in advance!
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Post by Conan growls on Nov 12, 2018 4:06:16 GMT -5
Thanks for replying RR Yes its stiff like when Ernie Chan does his art when not inking Buscema. No natural body movement and flow. Like you said almost like he was giving someone shot at the ropes. Also check pages: 51, 52, 53. I know what you mean by the rushed art like at the end of his in #121. But I think you are right too. I think it is someone else. Shame that his most well drawn issue of SSC 107 is a TU-- because of the story line with his "arch nemesis" intent on revenge. Can't stand that guy. It's too painful. BTW do you think the art will be cool in the new SSC? Will it be magazine size? In Colour? Thanks man! Here's a sample page from Ron Garney from the first issue of the new Savage Sword. Comic sized not magazine, in color not black and white. -M Thank you so much for that pic, that arts looks really cool, I was worried it was going to be super fake and airbrushed. My trouble is I didn't like the Dark Horse stuff like Conan the Cimmerian and not so sure about the new CTB either. I guess I grew up on the old SSC which might be outdated now so colour might be appropriate but IMHO they should have kept the magazine size and make it for more mature audiences...which I guess they still might...
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 12, 2018 5:53:01 GMT -5
Thanks mate!
Hey let me ask you something...
I was checking some old CONAN SAGA issues where Roy Thomas presented a "Conan Comics Chronology"...
For example, on Conan Saga #87 Roy presents the "part #11" of "Conan Comics Chronology", correspondent to the "Barachan and Buccaneer" years of Conan, which are the stories I am reading right now...
Well, knowing that this "Conan Comics Chronology" exists, which is great, I would like to ask you this:
Is this "Conan Comics Chronology" published on Conan Saga in the 90s a complete chronology of all Conan stories published by Marvel up to that point?
Is there an "updated" or "complete" "Conan Comics Chronology" including the Dark Horse material?
Thanks in advance!
Yep, that Conan Saga chronology included everything that Marvel had published up to that point. Considering Roy wrote it, I am not surprised! I don’t agree with all of it, as many of the stories from SSoC from the 1980s are written with no continuity in mind and could almost be placed anywhere, were it not for subtle references that Roy missed, and some tales are just impossible to place anywhere. (Chuck Dixon, for example, basically created his own independent chronology and geography, with Conan become general in chief of Nemedia the year before he became king of Aquilonia, and in a Nemedia that had a navy too). There may be an updated version out there, and I know there’s a Canadian fan (SirMuddy) who had an extensive chronology on the Conan.com site and that may still be available. Regarding the Dark Horse timeline, though, I have no information except that it differs from the Marvel one, being initially based on the “dark storm” chronology instead of the Miller and Schuyler one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 9:45:03 GMT -5
Thank you so much for that pic, that arts looks really cool, I was worried it was going to be super fake and airbrushed. My trouble is I didn't like the Dark Horse stuff like Conan the Cimmerian and not so sure about the new CTB either. I guess I grew up on the old SSC which might be outdated now so colour might be appropriate but IMHO they should have kept the magazine size and make it for more mature audiences...which I guess they still might... Magazine size books don't sell in the direct market. There are more books than shelf space put out each week, so larger size works against a books sales. Shops won't put them out on the shelves, they take up too much space in a crowded market so only people who preorder the book would get copies, which provides zero chance for growth or to ell enough to make a book viable. There are no magazine newsstands that sell comics for the book to find an audience with, so the magazine format is largely dead for anything from the big 2 outside of something like Mad Magazine, which rarely sells in comic shops but still does have some presence in the few places where magazines are sold. Pretty much anything attempted in the larger magazine format in the comics market that has been tried in the last 20 years has failed miserably. As for mature audiences, pretty much the entire direct market, except for book marketed specifically for younger readers, is made for more mature audiences these days. There is no comics code limiting content which necessitated the formatting of Savage Sword as a magazine rather than as a comic to escape it, and most mainstream books from Marvel are rated teen + anyways. So what exactly would be the benefits or formatting as a magazine in today's market? I actually prefer the larger format so the art can be at a larger size, but it is mostly a dead size format in the field today except for deluxe oversized hardcovers that have hefty price tags making them worth the shelf space for retailers and have an extended shelf life to make their money and sales, so I don;t expect to see it in any comic periodical sold in the direct market that has a shelf life of less than a month per issue. -M
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Post by Conan growls on Nov 12, 2018 16:57:17 GMT -5
Thank you so much for that pic, that arts looks really cool, I was worried it was going to be super fake and airbrushed. My trouble is I didn't like the Dark Horse stuff like Conan the Cimmerian and not so sure about the new CTB either. I guess I grew up on the old SSC which might be outdated now so colour might be appropriate but IMHO they should have kept the magazine size and make it for more mature audiences...which I guess they still might... Magazine size books don't sell in the direct market. There are more books than shelf space put out each week, so larger size works against a books sales. Shops won't put them out on the shelves, they take up too much space in a crowded market so only people who preorder the book would get copies, which provides zero chance for growth or to ell enough to make a book viable. There are no magazine newsstands that sell comics for the book to find an audience with, so the magazine format is largely dead for anything from the big 2 outside of something like Mad Magazine, which rarely sells in comic shops but still does have some presence in the few places where magazines are sold. Pretty much anything attempted in the larger magazine format in the comics market that has been tried in the last 20 years has failed miserably. As for mature audiences, pretty much the entire direct market, except for book marketed specifically for younger readers, is made for more mature audiences these days. There is no comics code limiting content which necessitated the formatting of Savage Word as a magazine rather than as a comic to escape it, and most mainstream books from Marvel are rated teen + anyways. So what exactly would be the benefits or formatting as a magazine in today's market? I actually prefer the larger format so the art can be at a larger size, but it is mostly a dead size format in the field today except for deluxe oversized hardcovers that have hefty price tags making them worth the shelf space for retailers and have an extended shelf life to make their money and sales, so I don;t expect to see it in any comic periodical sold in the direct market that has a shelf life of less than a month per issue. -M Wow thanks MRP. That totally makes sense. I never hashed out the reasons for that format. Yes I do like the larger size as you can be more "in"the story so to speak. Thanks a lot!
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 13, 2018 22:58:37 GMT -5
Thanks for replying RR Yes its stiff like when Ernie Chan does his art when not inking Buscema. No natural body movement and flow. Like you said almost like he was giving someone shot at the ropes. Also check pages: 51, 52, 53. I know what you mean by the rushed art like at the end of his in #121. But I think you are right too. I think it is someone else. Shame that his most well drawn issue of SSC 107 is a TU-- because of the story line with his "arch nemesis" intent on revenge. Can't stand that guy. It's too painful. BTW do you think the art will be cool in the new SSC? Will it be magazine size? In Colour? Thanks man! Here's a sample page from Ron Garney from the first issue of the new Savage Sword. Comic sized not magazine, in color not black and white. -M Nice, but that's not a Hyborian Age ship back there. At least not my Hyborian Age...
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Post by Conan growls on Dec 13, 2018 10:37:22 GMT -5
Here's a sample page from Ron Garney from the first issue of the new Savage Sword. Comic sized not magazine, in color not black and white. -M Nice, but that's not a Hyborian Age ship back there. At least not my Hyborian Age... A belated Thanks Prince Hal!
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