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Post by berkley on Jan 12, 2018 23:09:22 GMT -5
How did Marvel lose the rights to red Sonja? Wasn't she a Roy Thomas creation? I have no idea. I do know that Dynamite got the rights to the character in the early 200X's: www.redsonja.com/history/However, I strongly preferred Marvel's RS comics to Dynamite's version. I like the idea of Red Sonja but even in the old Marvel comics I thought the artwork usually didn't quite do justice to the concept: for example, John Buscema and Esteban Maroto are two of my all-time favourites, but each of them rendered the character as this slender, rather fragile-looking creature rather than the warrior she was supposed to be. Against all expectations, I think one of the best versions I've seen was by John Byrne in that Marvel team-Up issue. The Dynamite REH comics in general have never really come up with any artwork I found interesting or attractive enough to make me want to read them, which is too bad because I still like all those characters. I'll be curious to to see who gets the assignment for Marvel. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 23:47:35 GMT -5
Red SOnja is not part of the Howard properties but run as a separate company. Since she was never an actual Howard creation she was never part of the properties owned by the Howard estate (which Paradox now owns). But since she was created under a license, Roy nor Marvel never owned or controlled her rights either as was evidenced in the 80s when she was licensed to TSR for an RPG supplement, to a publisher for Red Sonja novels and for a movie without Marvel (or Roy) ever getting a cut. They are now two different licensed entities, from two different companies, but the Sonja license comes with the rights to use (but not own) the Hyborian setting she is a part of. Of course when I read RR's first post about Conan going to Marvel/Disney I was like wait, wha-? I am not surprised Dark Horse was letting the license go as they hadn't announced a new series to replace Conan the Slayer or anything after the Conan/Wonder Woman x-over mini, so I suspected they were done. And with them pulling the plug on the Roy Thomas/Tom Grindberg project unexpectedly a few months back, the writing was on the wall for me. It will be a year before we see any Conan from Marvel though, as they said early 2019 for the first release. I guess Marvel included Conan in their 2018 calendar that they gave away to retail shops for customers but I hadn't seen it. People were wondering why Conan was included, now we know. I guess 2 pieces of art were released with Marvel's press release, new pieces of Conan by Esac Ribic and Mike Deodato, so maybe one (or both) of them will be working on something Conan related for Marvel. I highly doubt they will rekindle their old Conan continuity, I suspect it will be more like what Marvel did when they acquired Star Wars-some big name talent on relaunch series that start fresh with only the official canon from Lucasfilm in place (in the Conan case that might be only the Howard stories themselves are in play as official) and they will pick a point in that canon and start filling in new adventures. They then released all the old Star Wars stuff in Epic collections and omnibus editions (which I hope they do for the previous Conan material as well, both from Marvel and from Dark Horse). This was quoted by Bleeding Cool form Cebulski's announcement about COnan today... so I am hoping that this witht he images by Deodato and Ribic indicate some top tier artists will be lined up to do Conan for Marvel. here's the piece by Esac Ribic...  and here's the Deodato piece more a Marvel promo piece than a pure Conan piece...  -M |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 23:54:09 GMT -5
Here's the image from the Marvel 2018 calendar...  -M |
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Post by berkley on Jan 13, 2018 1:21:31 GMT -5
I like both Ribic and Deodato but neither of those two images really grab me, I'm sorry to say.
The one thing I dislike about Ribic is the body-builder physique he gives his male heroes, with the over-developed biceps and so on, though that particular flaw isn't as evident above as it usually is with him. OTOH it doesn't have his usual strengths either: at his best, Ribic's images are much more dramatic and eye-catching, this one is kind of generic.
The Deodato one looks like he's channelling the Buscema version, which is fine but again, the overall impression is a bit blah.
It's only one early picture from each artist, though, so I'll try to keep an open mind for the future.
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Post by rom on Jan 13, 2018 8:30:10 GMT -5
My favorite Conan artist is John Buscema; he drew the most iconic version of Conan, IMHO. My second favorite is probably Barry W. Smith - great artist & great depiction of the character - unfortunately, he didn't draw the comic for that long.
I tried to get into the Dark Horse Conan comics, but didn't care for the art. I'm really only interested in the '70's - '90's Marvel comics featuring the character.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 12:02:24 GMT -5
My favorite Conan artist is John Buscema; he drew the most iconic version of Conan, IMHO. My second favorite is probably Barry W. Smith - great artist & great depiction of the character - unfortunately, he didn't draw the comic for that long. I tried to get into the Dark Horse Conan comics, but didn't care for the art. I'm really only interested in the '70's - '90's Marvel comics featuring the character. See I think Carey Nord's Conan most accurately captured the Conan that Howard put on the page. I really dig Buscema & Smith's versions, and love Frazetta, but for my money Nord's is Howard's Conan, while the others feel more like the Conan of the pastiche works. -M |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 13, 2018 14:08:08 GMT -5
My favorite Conan artist is John Buscema; he drew the most iconic version of Conan, IMHO. My second favorite is probably Barry W. Smith - great artist & great depiction of the character - unfortunately, he didn't draw the comic for that long. I tried to get into the Dark Horse Conan comics, but didn't care for the art. I'm really only interested in the '70's - '90's Marvel comics featuring the character. See I think Carey Nord's Conan most accurately captured the Conan that Howard put on the page. I really dig Buscema & Smith's versions, and love Frazetta, but for my money Nord's is Howard's Conan, while the others feel more like the Conan of the pastiche works. -M I love Nord’s Conan, but even moreso Nord’s Hyborian Age. The type of details he put in clothes, weapons and architecture made it look real and historical, not at like like fantasy pictures. As far as being true to Howard’s Conan, and while artistically I prefer Smith’s and have grown to identify Buscema’s as the “definitive” Conan, I think that Neal Adams pretty much nailed it. Square cut mane, tall and pantherish but not overly stocky, Adams’ Conan compensates his paucity of appearances by being right on the money. |
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Post by senatortombstone on Jan 14, 2018 18:24:27 GMT -5
I am not expecting this, but it would be great if Marvel would have a few lines, aside from Conan #1. I would like Conan the Barbarian #276 and Savage Sword of Conan #236 (or #246, if the 10-issue run of Conan the Savage is considered). How nice if Marvel acknowledged the previous continuity that was cruelly cut short and actually decided to begin again where it left off. I know, there is a 99.99% chance of this not happening, but a guy can dream.
At the same time, I am mournful of the lack of closure on the Darkhorse storylines. What about the Prince and the Wazir? What about that weird demon that is following Conan around as of Conan the Slayer #12? I really would have liked to see DH handle Red Nails and how Conan became king of Aquilonia. It would be nice if DH could at least explain the outline they would have had Conan take, even if it will never be fleshed out in books.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 18:39:28 GMT -5
I am not expecting this, but it would be great if Marvel would have a few lines, aside from Conan #1. I would like Conan the Barbarian #276 and Savage Sword of Conan #236 (or #246, if the 10-issue run of Conan the Savage is considered). How nice if Marvel acknowledged the previous continuity that was cruelly cut short and actually decided to begin again where it left off. I know, there is a 99.99% chance of this not happening, but a guy can dream. At the same time, I am mournful of the lack of closure on the Darkhorse storylines. What about the Prince and the Wazir? What about that weird demon that is following Conan around as of Conan the Slayer #12? I really would have liked to see DH handle Red Nails and how Conan became king of Aquilonia. It would be nice if DH could at least explain the outline they would have had Conan take, even if it will never be fleshed out in books. If Marvel did legacy numbering on Conan, it wouldn't be 276 it started with. There was 14 issues of Adventurer, 10 of Conan, 3 of Conan the Barbarian Vol. 2 and all the series of mini series (totaling somewhere between 12 and 20 issues of the top of my head) like Scarlet Sword, Flame & the Fiend, Lord of Spiders, etc. that ran in place of an ongoing Conan book after that up until they lost the licence around the turn of the millennium just before Dark Horse got it that would all have to be accounted for in the legacy numbering tally, so it would be starting somewhere in the early 300s if they do Legacy numbering on it. -M |
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Post by senatortombstone on Jan 14, 2018 19:20:34 GMT -5
I am not expecting this, but it would be great if Marvel would have a few lines, aside from Conan #1. I would like Conan the Barbarian #276 and Savage Sword of Conan #236 (or #246, if the 10-issue run of Conan the Savage is considered). How nice if Marvel acknowledged the previous continuity that was cruelly cut short and actually decided to begin again where it left off. I know, there is a 99.99% chance of this not happening, but a guy can dream. At the same time, I am mournful of the lack of closure on the Darkhorse storylines. What about the Prince and the Wazir? What about that weird demon that is following Conan around as of Conan the Slayer #12? I really would have liked to see DH handle Red Nails and how Conan became king of Aquilonia. It would be nice if DH could at least explain the outline they would have had Conan take, even if it will never be fleshed out in books. If Marvel did legacy numbering on Conan, it wouldn't be 276 it started with. There was 14 issues of Adventurer, 10 of Conan, 3 of Conan the Barbarian Vol. 2 and all the series of mini series (totaling somewhere between 12 and 20 issues of the top of my head) like Scarlet Sword, Flame & the Fiend, Lord of Spiders, etc. that ran in place of an ongoing Conan book after that up until they lost the licence around the turn of the millennium just before Dark Horse got it that would all have to be accounted for in the legacy numbering tally, so it would be starting somewhere in the early 300s if they do Legacy numbering on it. -M All very valid points. Any legacy numbering scheme could be tricky, as the storyline of CtB#275 continued in SSoC for about 17 issues. Conan the Adventurer: This 14-issue run took place chronologically well before the events of CtB#275, so it would have no impact on legacy numbering. Conan: This 11-issue run is not fit to line birdcages. In my view, it should be totally disregarded as part of the Marvel Conan continuity. This series was utter garbage - pure filth. Junk in Conan skins. An utter abomination. Multiple mini-series: I have most of these, but have yet to read them all. I know that the events depicted in Conan the Usurper conflict with the events depicted in the issues of SSoC, in which Conan becomes King. So it is possible that these issues could also be disregarded from a legacy continuity. After CtB was cancelled, Roy kept the story going in SSoC, until that magazine was tragically canceled at issue #235. For the sake of simplicity, if Marvel decides to do a legacy issue, it should just keep the numbering at #276. I just hope that Roy Thomas is willing and able to come back for more. Aside from REH, he understands Conan better than anyone alive. There were so many stories left untold. It would be awesome if he were willing to do a few more issues. But that is a lot to ask of a 77 year-old man. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 19:32:12 GMT -5
If Marvel did legacy numbering on Conan, it wouldn't be 276 it started with. There was 14 issues of Adventurer, 10 of Conan, 3 of Conan the Barbarian Vol. 2 and all the series of mini series (totaling somewhere between 12 and 20 issues of the top of my head) like Scarlet Sword, Flame & the Fiend, Lord of Spiders, etc. that ran in place of an ongoing Conan book after that up until they lost the licence around the turn of the millennium just before Dark Horse got it that would all have to be accounted for in the legacy numbering tally, so it would be starting somewhere in the early 300s if they do Legacy numbering on it. -M All very valid points. Any legacy numbering scheme could be tricky, as the storyline of CtB#275 continued in SSoC for about 17 issues. Conan the Adventurer: This 14-issue run took place chronologically well before the events of CtB#275, so it would have no impact on legacy numbering. Conan: This 11-issue run is not fit to line birdcages. In my view, it should be totally disregarded as part of the Marvel Conan continuity. This series was utter garbage - pure filth. Junk in Conan skins. An utter abomination. Multiple mini-series: I have most of these, but have yet to read them all. I know that the events depicted in Conan the Usurper conflict with the events depicted in the issues of SSoC, in which Conan becomes King. So it is possible that these issues could also be disregarded from a legacy continuity. After CtB was cancelled, Roy kept the story going in SSoC, until that magazine was tragically canceled at issue #235. For the sake of simplicity, if Marvel decides to do a legacy issue, it should just keep the numbering at #276. I just hope that Roy Thomas is willing and able to come back for more. Aside from REH, he understands Conan better than anyone alive. There were so many stories left untold. It would be awesome if he were willing to do a few more issues. But that is a lot to ask of a 77 year-old man. The Hudlin and Priest series of Black Panther had little to do with each other either, offering different versions of the character, but both count towards the Legacy numbering, and the Heroes Reborn issues done by the Image boys count towards the Marvel Legacy numbering of those titles as well, regardless of them being different takes or quality or not quality, so all series called Conan would count regardless of whether they fit together. That's the way they are doing the legacy numbering, not picking and choosing which ones count and which ones don't. So either they will count all the books with Conan in the title or none of them and start at #1. They are not going to change the way they do the legacy numbering just for this, as I doubt the editorial staff doing the counting will have even read most of the issues concerned (let alone be able to make any evaluation of the content in regards to continuity or not, just checking their publishing archive and counting. Since they are not doing Leagacy numbering on their other returned licensed property i.e. Star Wars, my guess is they start with #1 anyways. -M |
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Post by senatortombstone on Jan 14, 2018 19:41:22 GMT -5
All very valid points. Any legacy numbering scheme could be tricky, as the storyline of CtB#275 continued in SSoC for about 17 issues. Conan the Adventurer: This 14-issue run took place chronologically well before the events of CtB#275, so it would have no impact on legacy numbering. Conan: This 11-issue run is not fit to line birdcages. In my view, it should be totally disregarded as part of the Marvel Conan continuity. This series was utter garbage - pure filth. Junk in Conan skins. An utter abomination. Multiple mini-series: I have most of these, but have yet to read them all. I know that the events depicted in Conan the Usurper conflict with the events depicted in the issues of SSoC, in which Conan becomes King. So it is possible that these issues could also be disregarded from a legacy continuity. After CtB was cancelled, Roy kept the story going in SSoC, until that magazine was tragically canceled at issue #235. For the sake of simplicity, if Marvel decides to do a legacy issue, it should just keep the numbering at #276. I just hope that Roy Thomas is willing and able to come back for more. Aside from REH, he understands Conan better than anyone alive. There were so many stories left untold. It would be awesome if he were willing to do a few more issues. But that is a lot to ask of a 77 year-old man. The Hudlin and Priest series of Black Panther had little to do with each other either, offering different versions of the character, but both count towards the Legacy numbering, and the Heroes Reborn issues done by the Image boys count towards the Marvel Legacy numbering of those titles as well, regardless of them being different takes or quality or not quality, so all series called Conan would count regardless of whether they fit together. That's the way they are doing the legacy numbering, not picking and choosing which ones count and which ones don't. So either they will count all the books with Conan in the title or none of them and start at #1. They are not going to change the way they do the legacy numbering just for this, as I doubt the editorial staff doing the counting will have even read most of the issues concerned (let alone be able to make any evaluation of the content in regards to continuity or not, just checking their publishing archive and counting. Since they are not doing Leagacy numbering on their other returned licensed property i.e. Star Wars, my guess is they start with #1 anyways. -M Still more valid points. I would be VERY happy with any legacy series, so however it is done will be fine with me, so long as it is done. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 20:04:15 GMT -5
The other thing working against Legacy numbering on Conan I think is that it will not launch until 2019, so all the momentum and buzz over Legacy numbering will be done by then and Marvel will have moved on to their next publishing initiative and not want to look back to Legacy at that point. So I am betting on a new #1. Maybe two if they decide to do more than one Conan series (perhaps a young Conan book and an older Conan book, not sure). Personally I'd love to see an ongoing series with a regular creative team and an anthology book with different creators telling stories from different points in Conan's life.
-M
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 14, 2018 21:15:31 GMT -5
Conan: This 11-issue run is not fit to line birdcages. In my view, it should be totally disregarded as part of the Marvel Conan continuity. This series was utter garbage - pure filth. Junk in Conan skins. An utter abomination. Bless you, senator!!! I agree. They can all be treated the same way all the X-Men miniseries were in the '80s, and not included in the main series numbering. I would resume at #276 too, although I agree with mrp that Marvel will most likely start with a new #1 (and, unfortunately, very likely a new continuity too). It's just nuts that Roy the boy could be 77... But hey, he was already writing Conan when I was a kid and I'm 53 so it sort of makes sense. Time flies when you're having fun. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 21:39:05 GMT -5
Conan: This 11-issue run is not fit to line birdcages. In my view, it should be totally disregarded as part of the Marvel Conan continuity. This series was utter garbage - pure filth. Junk in Conan skins. An utter abomination. Bless you, senator!!! I agree. They can all be treated the same way all the X-Men miniseries were in the '80s, and not included in the main series numbering. I would resume at #276 too, although I agree with mrp that Marvel will most likely start with a new #1 (and, unfortunately, very likely a new continuity too). It's just nuts that Roy the boy could be 77... But hey, he was already writing Conan when I was a kid and I'm 53 so it sort of makes sense. Time flies when you're having fun. Except one of those minis was actually Conan the Barbarian Vol. 2 and others featured Roy Thomas and/or John Buscema and were part of the "ongoing" Conan story Marvel was telling at the time, not side adventures featuring characters from the main book. The other difference between the Conan minis and the X-Men minis is that there was an ongoing X-Men series at the time carrying on the numbering, but there wasn't a Conan ongoing. And Marvel likes anniversary issues as part of the legacy deal, so if they do Legacy Conan I can also see them adding all the Dark Horse stuff to get close to #400 near the launch of Conan in 2019. I'd also put odds on Aaron writing the ongoing at launch after his post showing all the Conan books and the crucial role he played in he successful relaunch of the Star wars franchise for Marvel. They're going to use the big names they have working for them already that show they can sell books in the current market. The last Thomas Conan series (Road of Kings) launched weakly and bled readers throughout its entire run and was not well-received either by readers or retailers. Granted it was always seen as a bridge series not an ongoing, but it did nothing to position a Thomas written Conan book for success in the current marketplace. -M |
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