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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 20, 2018 19:14:56 GMT -5
Detective Comics #652 and #653 (with the return of the Huntress) was actually pretty good. I really don't know why I didn't like it back when I first read it. The "diplomatic immunity" aspect of the story is a very minor element, and in the following issue, the conversations (mostly among the police) hint at the actual complexity involved in diplomatic immunity in a way that the comics (and other forms of popular entertainment) don't usually even get in to. (I'm no expert on diplomatic immunity. But I've been seeing stories about "diplomatic immunity" on TV and in the comics since I was a kid, and I would think "that doesn't make any sense!" so I've actually done quite a bit of research about it. Even when I was a kid, I was pretty good at detecting some lazy b.s. from some TV (or comic book) writer.) Great art by Nolan and Hanna! |
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 20, 2018 19:22:38 GMT -5
God, that is one terrible cover. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 21, 2018 0:27:49 GMT -5
God, that is one terrible cover. Well, it was the 1990s. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 23, 2018 13:52:18 GMT -5
I took a little break from Detective Comics. I was a few chapters into Knightfall, Detective Comics #660, I think. I left a few Knightfall comments on some of the other Batman threads. I didn't take a break because I was bored with Knightfall or anything like that. I was running some errands over the weekend and I found myself in Pomona, pretty close to a comic-book shop that I've been wanting to check out, just to see what they got. This place is probably a little closer to my house than my usual shop, but I'd have to drive through Pomona every week and the traffic is a lot worse. And I picked up: Wonder Woman (third series) #14 to #17, The Circle. I think this is Gail Simone's first Wonder Woman story arc. The Night Nurse reprint comic from a few years ago. I'm pretty excited about this! I didn't know it existed! It reprints Night Nurse #1 to #4 and a more recent Daredevil story. True Believer reprint of Marvel Two-In-One #1. True Believer reprint of Fantastic Four #5. I've read FF #5 about a million times, but not lately. And I got back a couple of comics that I loaned out a few months ago. There's a coverless issue of World's Finest where Bat-Mite and Mr. Mxyzptlk show up and cause trouble. And also Batman #198, an All-Villain 80-Page Giant. Now that I have them back, I want to read them again. So I actually have a lot to read, and I decided to take a break from Knightfall and just read all these comics at my leisure. I'll probably comment on some of them on the "What classic comics have you read lately?" thread. I will get back to Knightfall in a few days. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 23, 2018 16:24:50 GMT -5
I loaned my coverless copy of World's Finest #123 to a friend of mine a while back and I got it back a few days ago. I really love the lead story! And as I hadn't really had it that long when I loaned it out and I haven't really had a chance to read it more than once or twice, I decided to read it again before filing it away. It's so awesome! Batman and Superman are trying to stop the Crime Rocket! It's a band of criminals that have a rocket! They land the rocket, rob the payroll and then zoom away before anyone can stop them! (And they also got hold of some kryptonite that can be extended from the nose of the rocket. So, CHECKMATE, KAL-EL! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!) Well, Bat-Mite and, quite independently, Mr. Mxyzptlk show up. And for their various reasons, they both start casting spells, and the mixture of different magics from two various magical dimensions causes weird monsters to appear! (Like the one on the cover.) When either tries to fix it, the monster turns into another weird creature! Yeah, just some more wonderful wackiness from Silver Age DC. The Comic Book Database says it was written by Jerry Coleman and the art is Dick Sprang and Sheldon Moldoff. I haven't re-read the Tommy Tomorrow or the Green Arrow story just yet. I seem to remember that the Green Arrow story is actually pretty decent. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 18:41:32 GMT -5
I loaned my coverless copy of World's Finest #123 to a friend of mine a while back and I got it back a few days ago. I really love the lead story! And as I hadn't really had it that long when I loaned it out and I haven't really had a chance to read it more than once or twice, I decided to read it again before filing it away. It's so awesome! Batman and Superman are trying to stop the Crime Rocket! It's a band of criminals that have a rocket! They land the rocket, rob the payroll and then zoom away before anyone can stop them! (And they also got hold of some kryptonite that can be extended from the nose of the rocket. So, CHECKMATE, KAL-EL! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!) Well, Bat-Mite and, quite independently, Mr. Mxyzptlk show up. And for their various reasons, they both start casting spells, and the mixture of different magics from two various magical dimensions causes weird monsters to appear! (Like the one on the cover.) When either tries to fix it, the monster turns into another weird creature! Yeah, just some more wonderful wackiness from Silver Age DC. The Comic Book Database says it was written by Jerry Coleman and the art is Dick Sprang and Sheldon Moldoff. I haven't re-read the Tommy Tomorrow or the Green Arrow story just yet. I seem to remember that the Green Arrow story is actually pretty decent. One of my favorites ... and always be. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 24, 2018 1:17:08 GMT -5
I loaned out Batman #198 a few months ago and I got it back over the weekend. One of the stories reprinted in this 80-Page Giant is "The Origin of the Batman!" from Batman #47 (1948). It's my favorite Batman story! nothing else even comes close! I bought Batman #198 at a comic-book store in Los Angeles in the 1990s. It cost one dollar. It's missing the back cover and it's otherwise pretty beat-up. But this is my favorite fprmat for reading "The Origin of Batman!" even though I have it reprinted in other formats. I was glad to get it back! I read "The Origin of Batman" for about the millionth time earlier today. Really, it's the perfect origin of Batman and the best portrayal of Joe Chill. Anybody who looks at this story and thinks "Wouldn't it be better if Batman has to team up for some stupid contrived reason with the man who killed his parents?" shouldn't be allowed to write Batman: Year Two. (I also don't think Lew Moxon had anything to do with the death of Thomas and Martha Wayne. But I kind of like "The First Batman!" in Detective Comics #235. I've just never been able to decide what to do with it.) Joe Chill is a desperate character who needs money fast and he decides to rob the swells! It all goes wrong when Thomas Wayne doesn't cooperate and Joe Chill starts shooting. He escapes into the night and years later he's running a crooked trucking company. And at the end he's murdered by his own gang. That's the story of Joe Chill. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 24, 2018 21:06:44 GMT -5
lI pulled out all my Batman and Detective Comics annuals from the 1990s, and I'm going to try and fit them into my reading here and there. Today I read Detective Comics Annual #7. That's right! This is the Elseworlds period! And this is the pirate issue! Batman, Robin, Alfred, the Joker and Catwoman are all pirates! It's as nuts as it sounds! Great art by Alcatena! |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 24, 2018 21:53:57 GMT -5
Before I comment any further on Knightfall as a storyline, I would like to say a few words on why Knightfall is important to me personally as a collector. Because the reason I collect Detective Comics instead of Batman is mostly because of Knightfall and the aftermath of this famous (and infamous) cross-over. Before Knightfall, I had more issues of Batman than I did of Detective Comics. Not by much. But there was a period in the late 1970s when I bought Batman every once in a while but I only bought three issues of Detective Comics (#473, #475 and #476). And then I collected both titles equally during the Len Wein/Doug Moench era when the continuity ran directly from Batman to Detectvie and back again for years and years! (I'm surprised the whole cast didn't all drop dead from exhaustion.) I quit buying the Bat-books on a regular basis for a time. But in 1993, I was right back in the fan club when Knightfall started! I bought all the official chapters in Batman and Detective Comics and I don't think I missed any of the side stories that spun off into The Shadow of the Bat and several issues of Showcase '93. But when Knightfall ended, I didn't really feel the need to read everything. So I stuck with the adventures of Azrael-Batman in the pages of Detective Comics. (Such nice art by Nolan and Hanna!) Further adventures of Azbats were available in the regular Baman comics. I didn't read those. Crippled Bruce Wayne and physio-therapist Shondra Kinsolving had adventures of their own in Shadow of the Bat and Legends of the Dark Knight. I didn't read those. No, I just read Detective Comics. Even after Bruce came back as Batman. Through Prodigal, various epidemics, the various earthquake cross-overs that resulted in No Man's Land, through the Sasha Bordeaux era and all the way to about Detective Comics #785 or so, I read Detective Comics. If there was a cross-over, I sometmes read the other comics. But often I didn't. Around 2003, I quit buying everything (except I think I was still picking up Cerebus, which ended in 2004). When I started up again with reading comics in 2011, one of the first things I bought was the then-current issue of Detective Comics, #879, the first part of a three-part story with the Joker and James Gordon Jr. And when I looked at my glorious Detective Comics collection, I thought "How glorious it is! A bunch of issues from the 1980s and then all the issues from 1993 to 2003. How can I make it more glorious? By filling in those gaps!" So that's how it started. I started buying bunches and bunches of issues of Detective Comics from #580 to #660 and also from #785 to #878, and then I just started casting the net wider and wider and farther back into the hidden mists of time until I hit the last few years of the Jack Schiff era! I now have Detective Comics #275, #280, #282, #283 and then every issue from #285 to the present except #298 (which is a bit pricey because it's the first appearance of the second Clayface). So just one issue away from 700 consecutive issues! So that's the short explanation of why I consider Knightfall to be the real reason why I collect Detective Comics. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 24, 2018 22:21:02 GMT -5
I was thinking that I wasn't really reading that many comics when I started reading Knightfall, but a quick look at Mike's Amazing World of Comics reveals 24 comic book cover-dated May 1993 that I remember buying when they were brand new. So just for the heck of it, here's the complete list! INDEPENDENT COMICS
1001 Nights of Bacchus #1 1963 #2 Cerebus #170 Dark Horse Presents #73 VERTIGO COMICS
Death:The High Cost of Living #3 Kid Eternity #1 (I think this was the only issue of KE I ever bought.) Sandman #49 Sandman Mystery Theatre #2 (I bought every issue of this!) Sebastian O #1 DC COMICS
Atom Special #1 (I love this comic! One of my favorite Atom comics. It hasn't been that long since I last read it.) Batman #492 and #493 Detective Comics #659 and #660 Green Lantern #39 and #40 (We're working our way towards Parallax. Ugh!) Green Lantern: Mosaic #12 Justice League of America #74 Justice League Europe #50 Justice Society of America #10 Legionnaires #2 Showcase '93 #5 MARVEL COMICS
Incredible Hulk #405 The Invaders #1 (I don't think I ever read any of the rest of this mini-series.) |
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Post by DubipR on Jul 25, 2018 8:19:18 GMT -5
God, that is one terrible cover. Yeah, that's terrible considering that's done by Travis Charest, who is an amazing artist.... |
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Post by chadwilliam on Jul 25, 2018 15:29:04 GMT -5
I loaned out Batman #198 a few months ago and I got it back over the weekend. One of the stories reprinted in this 80-Page Giant is "The Origin of the Batman!" from Batman #47 (1948). It's my favorite Batman story! nothing else even comes close! I bought Batman #198 at a comic-book store in Los Angeles in the 1990s. It cost one dollar. It's missing the back cover and it's otherwise pretty beat-up. But this is my favorite fprmat for reading "The Origin of Batman!" even though I have it reprinted in other formats. I was glad to get it back! I read "The Origin of Batman" for about the millionth time earlier today. Really, it's the perfect origin of Batman and the best portrayal of Joe Chill. Anybody who looks at this story and thinks "Wouldn't it be better if Batman has to team up for some stupid contrived reason with the man who killed his parents?" shouldn't be allowed to write Batman: Year Two. (I also don't think Lew Moxon had anything to do with the death of Thomas and Martha Wayne. But I kind of like "The First Batman!" in Detective Comics #235. I've just never been able to decide what to do with it.) Joe Chill is a desperate character who needs money fast and he decides to rob the swells! It all goes wrong when Thomas Wayne doesn't cooperate and Joe Chill starts shooting. He escapes into the night and years later he's running a crooked trucking company. And at the end he's murdered by his own gang. That's the story of Joe Chill. What I really love about "The Origin of Batman" is that whole cool, calm, collected "Let me tell you a story without an ending Chill. Perhaps you can supply it" lead in to the heightened, heart pounding "I know you killed the Waynes" followed by Chill's "How could you possibly know what happened?" to "I know... (removes mask) because I am the son of the man you murdered!" Four panels of Batman knowing he's about to look his parents killer in the eyes and do God knows what while Chill can wonder why Batman's talking to him about a decades old murder. I get your dislike of the inclusion of Lew Moxon in the Batman mythos, but as I mentioned recently over on the 'Origins' thread, having Moxon in the picture absolves Thomas Wayne of some of his responsibility for his and Martha Wayne's death. Without Moxon, it's quite possible that Chill would have taken Martha Wayne's necklace and left the scene without firing a shot had Thomas Wayne not decided to lunge at a man pointing a gun at him. With Moxon in the picture however, Thomas Wayne doesn't come across as a reckless firebrand willing to gamble his family's lives to save some jewelry but as a guy who was going to die anyway so had nothing to lose with his act of desperation. Plus, the Moxon is just a great story in and of itself - a guy who beats the lie detector test because he genuinely doesn't know he's guilty of the crime he's being accused of. Plus, Batman wearing his father's outfit and chasing him into the street is just such a classic moment that I'd hate to lose the impetus for it. One other thing, the Batman Adventures comic which tied in with the animated series (issue 17, 2004) had Batman confront Joe Chill without knowing who the guy was. SPOILERS We find that in this universe, Chill was horrified to discover that the couple he killed were The Waynes and that their son, was one of the richest, most powerful people living in Gotham. Since the murder, he had lived in terror that Wayne would one day track him down and extract his vengeance upon him. Chill is still a crook, but he's become obsessed with Wayne. We see him waiting in line to buy a burger and does a double take when he thinks he sees Wayne standing in line next to him (instead it's just some guy). He passes a picture on a wall and does a double take ("Is that Bruce Wayne's picture?!" No, just some guy). Wherever he goes, his mind tricks him into thinking that Bruce Wayne is standing right beside him or is nearby. Eventually, he attempts a hit on the police officer who is still looking into the Wayne's killing and at this point comes face to face with Batman. Batman has no idea who he is other than some elderly two bit hood. They fight, Chill gets in a lucky shot, and struggles with Batman as they roll about on the floor. At this point, Chill rips Batman's mask out and freaks - it's Bruce Wayne. He understands now how far gone he's become - he actually thinks he sees Bruce Wayne's face when he knows it must be another illusion. Only this time, Wayne's face doesn't disappear. He just stares and stares at him puzzled by Chill's freaked out reaction. Chill backs away in terror, falls out a window, and Batman leaps after him begging Chill to grab his outstretched arm. The whole time he falls however, Chill just begs him to disappear until he hits the ground with a thud. A thoroughly confused Batman looks at his body and proclaims "All you had to do was grab my hand, I would have saved you!". At the end of the story, Batman learns his name but admits that it means nothing to him, still bothered by the fact that this random nobody refused to let himself be saved by him. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 26, 2018 1:22:59 GMT -5
I'm up to Detective Comics #661. I'd forgotten that Knightfall goes on and on forever. This is Chapter Six, and there's five more chapters in Batman and five more chapters in Detective, not to mention chapters in Showcase '93 and Shadow of the Bat! I'd also forgotten about the Firefly chapters. This chapter is beautifully drawn (Nolan and Hanna) and you really get a feeling looking at the pages of burning amusement parks and theaters … it's HOT! And in this case, you can see why Batman might decide he can't go to bed yet. Firefly, despite being a less well-known Batman villain, is a dangerous arsonist and he must be stopped before he unleashes a conflagration that could kill thousands! But … he gets away! Why? Because you are exhausted, Bruce! Get a clue! Listen to Alfred and Tim and Bullock and everybody you run into and go home and get some sleep! Let the JLA and the JLE and the JSA know and maybe some of those people can lend a hand. I doubt very much that say, Booster Gold is so busy that he can't tackle Firefly or the Black Spider or whoever. But no. Bruce takes a shower and is back on the street because THE CAVALIER MUST BE STOPPED! I'm serious. I had totally forgotten that the Cavalier is in Knightfall. This issue devotes a few panels to Batman's fight with the Cavalier. And I don't know what the Cavalier was doing that demanded immediate action from Batman. Was he showering some lovely Gotham ladies with unwanted romantic attention? I think the cops can handle this! Montoya will know what to do! On the plus side, Robin's detective work is pretty cool. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 30, 2018 11:50:17 GMT -5
I got a little sidetracked because I had a busy weekend. And also, I read All-Star Batman and Robin. And a couple of issues of Wonder Woman. And one of my online movie-buff acquaintances sent me a digital file for Bertolucci's Prima della rivoluzione (1964), a film that I have been seeking out for several years. But I got back to Knightfall! I read Batman #497 (the one where Bane breaks batman's back) a few nights ago and I read Detective #664 last night. I'd forgotten that Knightfall goes on and on and on. I was thinking it was 12 chapters. I had completely forgotten how long it goes on after Bane breaks Batman's back. It's been a while since I read it. Back in 2011 or 2012 when I had acquired every issue of Detective Comics from the start of Knightfall to Detective Comics #800, I took a few months and read every issue. I think that was the last time I read Knightfall. But I'd read just Knightfall more than a few times in the late 1990s and early 2000s, so I'm kind of surprised at how much I've forgotten. The art is great! I was just gazing in wonder at the Nolan/Hanna art in Detective #664 as I was reading through it. Everybody looks great. Well, Bruce doesn't look so great when he gets picked up by Alfred, Jean-Paul and Tim, pretending to be an ambulance crew from Mercy hospital. Bruce has just been tossed from a building by Bane and he bounced off a couple of awnings and ledges before he landed in Robinson Square. I like Montoya's concern, and the way she wants to ride with Batman to the hospital. We also get a few pages of the Joker and the Scarecrow plotting their next move, but Scarecrow thinks it's time for a change in the partnership and he hits the Joker with the fear gas. I love the Joker's response! "Got any other flavors?" The Scarecrow should have known that wouldn't work! Also, Scarface and Socko fighting over who's going to run the gang is hilarious! The Ventriloquist tries SO HARD, but he just can't keep the peace! As much as I like so many things about Knightfall, there is a big plot problem that it's hard to ignore: Batman's not an idiot! He can't save everyone. He's never been able to save everyone. He knows this. And he must know he certainly can't save ANYONE if he's too exhausted to stop someone like Bane from breaking his back after he totally falls for it and lets himself be manipulated in every step of Bane's plan. I just find it very hard to believe that Batman isn't any smarter than what we see in Knightfall. Anyway, I'm already up to the part where that's already been done, so from here on, I'll just read the rest of it and pretend like that doesn't bother me more than a little. |
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 30, 2018 16:49:35 GMT -5
lI pulled out all my Batman and Detective Comics annuals from the 1990s, and I'm going to try and fit them into my reading here and there. Today I read Detective Comics Annual #7. That's right! This is the Elseworlds period! And this is the pirate issue! Batman, Robin, Alfred, the Joker and Catwoman are all pirates! It's as nuts as it sounds! Great art by Alcatena! I owned this comic when I was a kid. I continue to kick myself over losing it. |
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