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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 21, 2018 19:58:49 GMT -5
Detective Comics #583 and #584 contain the "Fever" storyline that introduces Scarface and the Ventriloquist. I love these two! I'm tempted to say they are the last great addition to the Batman rogues gallery, but maybe I'll think of somebody else later on. (Not Bane!) They are pretty funny here, and also menacing and scary and creepy as well. That whole sequence with the courier who doesn't know how he's supposed to smuggle the drug (called "the fever") … and it turns out he's going to be strangled and the drugs will be put in his dead body … it's pretty gruesome. And that scene where the drugged-out kids are going to burn the cat and they end up killing a security guard who intervenes … it's definitely a modern post-Miller take on Batman! (However, my favorite of the early Ventriloquist appearances is a three-parter in Batman #475, Detective #642 and Batman #476. The storyline is called "The Return of Scarface" and one of the chapters is "The Gig Heat." I love it!) I love trying to figure out what is up with those two! Is the Ventriloquist another eccentric Gotham gangster with a flair for ventriloquism? Or does he have a split personality and one of his personas expresses itself through Scarface? Or is Scarface really a separate entity, the ghost of an executed murderer, or a doll made from wood that was cursed by witches or demons? (Or something.) (I read the origin in Showcase '94 #8 and #9, but I like to pretend that I haven't.) The first apearance of these loveable rogues is a very entertaining blend of comedy and tragedy and gruesomeness. And some great Breyfogle art! If I didn't already know what was coming over the next six or seven years of Detective Comics, this issue might make me think I was entering a Golden Age of Batman!
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 25, 2018 11:28:44 GMT -5
I've been pretty busy and haven't had a chance to write anything about Detective Comics for a few days. As far as how many I've read, I still have time to sneak in an issue here or there, so I'm up to Detective Comics #595. If I get up to #600 without an update, I'll force myself to stop until I get caught up on my comments. However, I hit Detective Comics #595 last night, and I decided to take a few seconds to comment on this issue. It's one of my candidates for worst issue of Detective Comics ever. I think it's the only issue of the Invasion cross-over that I have ever read, and it definitely doesn't make me curious about any of the rest of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 12:55:53 GMT -5
I've been pretty busy and haven't had a chance to write anything about Detective Comics for a few days. As far as how many I've read, I still have time to sneak in an issue here or there, so I'm up to Detective Comics #595. If I get up to #600 without an update, I'll force myself to stop until I get caught up on my comments. However, I hit Detective Comics #595 last night, and I decided to take a few seconds to comment on this issue. It's one of my candidates for worst issue of Detective Comics ever. I think it's the only issue of the Invasion cross-over that I have ever read, and it definitely doesn't make me curious about any of the rest of it. As far as I concerned here -- Many Readers at the LCS that I go to saying that this issue and issues dealing with the Invasion Crossover weren't all that good and many of them stopped collecting Detective Comics at that point of time and that's sad to say here. I agree with you 100% ... Detective Comics #595 is one of the worst and I have a friend who said to me -- don't read Detective Comics #595. I haven't yet read it.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 26, 2018 2:07:51 GMT -5
I think I've mentioned a few times that I sort of consider the period from Detective #580 (or so) to the start of Knightfall (about #660) to be something of a vast wasteland of bad Batman stories. There are some really good stories here, of course! There's several great storylines with the Ventriloquist and Scarface, for example. And a couple of Penguin stories that I like a lot ("Snow and Ice" and "The Penguin Affair"). And I love the storyline with the Dick Sprang covers (and not just for the Dick Sprang covers). But I generally consider this period to be pretty bad. I read a few of these issues when they came out because I had a roommate who really got into Batman after the first Michael Keaton movie came out, so some of these issues were laying around the apartment. So I remember reading Mudpack. And I liked the Dick Sprang issues enough that I bought my own copies after my roommate moved out (the first time I had bought Detective since #580) and I had a few scattered issues by the time Knightfall started. But most of these issues I bought in 2010 to 2012, when I decided to start working on a complete set of Detective Comics. They were pretty cheap compared to some of the other issues of Detective Comics I was buying. I would get a bunch at a time for $2 each or less, I got them all out of order and spread out over a long period of time. Now that I'm actually reading them in order, I am happy to say that the stories in Detective Comics #585 to #590 are not the disastrous run I thought they were going to be. First up is the two-part Ratcatcher story in #585 and #586. I remember this story, but I don't remember thinking much of it when I read it about 2011. I probably read these two issues out of order and months apart. But this time through, I quite enjoyed it. Writers Wagner and Grant are doing their own thing and getting far away from the big cast and the classic rogues gallery and the numerous plotlines of the Len Wein/Doug Moench era. It seems unlikely to me that the Ratcatcher could ever be a regular fixture in the rogues gallery, but he is a pretty good villain for this one story at least. It's actually pretty creepy at times. It makes me think of Dwight Frye shouting "Rats! Rats!" in the 1931 Dracula movie. THAT always gives me chills. Then there's a three-parter titled "Night People" in Detective Comics #587 to #589. There's this annoying all-night disc jockey who calls his listeners "peoples." And there's an escaped convict who is looking for revenge on a guy named Kadaver. The convict gets involved in a comic-book industrial accident and becomes "The Corrosive Man," a figure straight out of a Lon Chaney Jr. horror movie. It doesn't deter him from his quest. And then there's Kadaver himself, a weird Gotham figure who uses his death obsession to be a hitman. And then there's the Batman! And they all come together for three fun issues. I only vaguely remember this story. It seemed like a new story to me when I was reading it a few days ago, more like something I'd read about in an online review than something I'd actually read myself. I get what Wagner and Grant are doing quite a bit better this time around. They're practically starting from scratch and building their own Batman world. With their own characters. Potential recurring characters like the Ventriloquist and Scarface and Kadaver, but also less versatile entities alike Ratcatcher and the Corrosive Man. I prefer the Wein/Moench issues, but these Wagner/Grant issues are good too! Less successful is Detective #590 where Batman goes to London. This is one of those stories where a comic book writer tackles diplomatic immunity, and that never ends well! They should probably try doing a little research. The diplomat in question in #590 is from Syraqui and he plans terrorist attacks on Vietnam war veterans in Gotham City because … um, they didn't really get into that. And the law can't touch him because he has diplomatic unity! Sheesh! I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way! If somebody was trying to use diplomatic immunity as a cover for terrorism, the target country would just suspend international relations with that country, wouldn't they? This just really makes very little sense. Maybe I'm wrong. It's been a while since I read anything on this subject. But based on my understanding of diplomatic immunity, this story makes no sense! So that's three pretty good to great storylines (if you count Detective Comics #583 and #584, which I commented on a few days ago) for the new writers and one absolute stinker in #590. That's a much better average than I thought it would be!
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 26, 2018 10:33:59 GMT -5
I'm working my way closer and closer to Detective Comics #600, and the major discovery is that (aside from Detective #590), I'm liking these stories a lot more this time around than I did when I first read them seven or eight years ago. I distinctly remember thinking "Aborigine!" was pretty bad the first time I read it, but it's actually pretty good, a successful departure from the usual Batman fare. An unscrupulous Gothamite has stolen an aborigine artifact, and one of them has come to America to get it back. Unimpressed with white man's justice, he has his own ways of getting things done. Cornelius Stirk is introduced in a two-part story in Detective Comics #592 and #593. I don't like this as much as the Ratcatcher story or the Kadaver story, but it's still pretty solid. And pretty gruesome! But living in Gotham City isn't always a walk in the park! I think Stirk might have been a stronger character if they had established a connection to Jonathan Crane (the Scarecrow) somehow. He could have been a student of Crane, maybe he had volunteered as a test subject (for extra credit) when Crane was perfecting his fear gas. I know, it sounds kind of stupid, but still it sounds like something you would do if you were going to Gotham U and had a class with Professor Crane. Maybe Stirk could be a distant relative of Crane who got hold of his notes? Or maybe he was just a homeless person who spent a night in Crane's creepy, abandoned house close to the college, and he stumbled across a hidden room? Gotham City has a rich history of such weirdness that it seems natural to create connections like this. (And the Scarecrow is NOT one of my favorites. I think such a connection would help make Professor Crane more interesting as well.) Detective Comics #594 is OK. I especially like Joe Potato, the private investigator. I looked at his Comic Book Database listing and it looks like he appeared a few more times, but not in Detective Comics. If I was writing Batman, I would bring back Joe Potato, and maybe develop a mostly friendly but very competitive rivalry with Slam Bradley. Which brings us to this trippy little tale in Detective Comics #596 and #597. Somebody is filming brutal fights and beatings and then showing the resulting films to very wealthy individuals who love this stuff. Batman gets involved when they beat a college student nearly to death. These snuff film moguls get a film of Batman getting the snot beat out of him by their hired bruiser and Batman manages to track the cameraman and puts an end to this operation. I don't remember this story at all. I must have got it when I ordered a bunch of comics (because of how cheap these comics were in 2010) and then just ended up skimming it because these covers don't look familiar and I have no recollection of this story. It's actually pretty good! One of the reasons I'm happy reading through these issues is that I want to become more familiar with Detective Comics as a whole and find stories that I've overlooked or been unfair to in the past. And so far that's working out very well. I've read almost 25% of the issues between #580 and #640 - an era that I used to consider a Detective Dark Age - and so far, there's only been a handful of bad stories. I read #598 last night, but I'm going to wait until I've read the whole storyline before commenting, except to say "Nice art!"
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Post by chadwilliam on Jun 28, 2018 20:03:39 GMT -5
And I just read Detective Comics #567, the last issue edited by Len Wein. This rather strange issue was written by Harlan Ellison. I remember buying it when it first came out and liking it a lot! I met Harlan Ellison years later. I was at a comic book shop in Los Angeles where Neil Gaiman was singing things and Ellison was one of the "other guys" also signing things. I was in line for Gaiman and standing next to Ellison's table and we started talking about Gaiman, and he praised Gaiman's work. I didn't realize who I was talking to. Finally I took a closer look at his tag, and I suddenly realized I was talking to Harlan Ellison, who was there largely ignored as he was pushing his latest comic book project. I almost said "Harlan Ellison! I heard you were a total a-hole!" I wish I had Detective Comics #567 with me! I would LOVE to have that signed. Anyway, we talked about Dangerous Visions and the issue of the Hulk that he wrote in the early 1970s. (I had completely forgotten about his Star Trek episode.) He was very nice and polite though he did get a little grumpy about how Roy Thomas had rewritten a lot of his Hulk story. So that's the time I met Harlan Ellison. Detective #567 has the last Green Arrow story and it's not that good. Near the end of the Green Arrow's run in Detective, I was actually starting to like it. But the last couple of stories were kind of disappointing and it ends rather abruptly. Now that the continuity isn't running from Detective into Batman and back again, I won't be reading Batman for awhile. So only about 400 issues to go on Detective Comics! This issue comes up every now and then as "that Batman story written by Harlan Ellison" and when it does, I sometimes like to direct people to Batman: Gotham Knights # 13 which featured a Batman Black and white back-up penned by Ellison and pencilled by Gene Ha from 2001. I didn't bring it up earlier for fear of disrupting the flow of this thread, but with Ellison's passing, I thought if now's not the time, then when? "Funny Money" is a nine page tale in which Batman is called in by the FBI to look into a case involving counterfeit money being produced in Gotham. Actually, Batman's called in by Gordon as he's in the middle of delivering a group of four thugs who he has literally reeled in on a wire attached to his Bat-Gyro. "When you're done here, would you mind stepping into my office for a few words on a troublesome matter?" Batman releases the reel. "THWIP!" "No problem." From below. "Ouch!" "Ouch!" "Ouch!" "Ouch!" Ellison nails Batman's personality in a way few others have managed. I remember Grant Morrison explaining that he got his inspiration for the cover of the first issue of his superb All Star Superman run after seeing a guy dressed as Superman sitting on the steps at a Comic-Con with his arm casually tucked over a leg which was resting just as casually in a curled up manner. "That's how Superman would sit," he thought. "He wouldn't stand with his chest puffed out, hands on hips, ready to take on the world - he's Superman. He knows nothing can hurt him so he'd be relaxed all the time". Ellison brings a similar nuanced understanding to Batman. Not cocky, but he knows his stuff. And Gordon knows him. "So what's new?" "Same old, same old". Batman doesn't need to stick to the shadows, he doesn't need the superstitious beliefs of a cowardly lot to gain an edge over his opponents - he could walk into a criminal hideout dressed in his Rainbow Batman outfit at high noon and still mop the place up without breaking a sweat. Anyhoo, Batman's introduced to two treasury agents concerned with the whereabouts of some criminals in possession of "Blue and Red fibres, 75% cotton, 25% Linen" which Batman immediately recognizes as the type of paper US currency is printed on. While the agents have their hands on the engraver who is supposed to meet up with these criminals to assist in the illegal production of what will be counterfeit money almost imperceptibly identical to the real thing, they want the guys with the paper. Batman offers to make the engraver (a 62 year old Swiss man) talk but is told that he can not lay a finger on him nor can he say a word ("Sticks and stones may break his bones, but words are just as illegal") "What can I tell you... I've got a nice idea how to play this... all I can say is 'Trust me'. I won't mess it up, Jim". Cut to the cell of engraver Kaes Poppinger. Lights go out. Lights come back on. Scene is same as before except Batman is standing on the edge of one of the two beds in Poppinger's cell as Poppinger rests on the other. And that's all he does, for panel after panel. Just staring and staring. Poppinger asks him what he wants - no response. He curls up in his bed and tries to sleep - no response. He fidgets and looks at Batman over his shoulder - no response. If you're wondering how Ha managed to fit so many panels into a nine page story, he created a page layout of ever shrinking panels inside every shrinking panels. Eventually Batman asks Poppinger for the whereabout of the plates and his help. The engraver agrees. Cut to Bat-Cave where a blindfolded Poppinger stands before a table decked out with his engraving tools. Batman stands on a mound above him and tells him he can remove his blindfold. "Then, and I warn you this is your only chance to avoid the flames of Hell, you will do as I have just instructed". When he does, Batman leaps over Poppinger as a flock of bats fly alongside. "WORK, NOW, LITTLE MAN. WORK, FOR I TELL YOU THE NIGHT IS COMING!" He then disappears into the shadows where he is joined by Alfred. "I say, Master Bruce. Isn't that dialogue a tad too Lon Chaney even for you?" "He's Swiss. Melodrama is required." Batman releases Poppinger who meets with the counterfeiters with the paper the money is to be printed on. The fake currency is printed and Batman busts in. "How unfortunate - for you - that my involvement here is absolutely legal." "And that would be because...?" "Because the presses are as we found them, and because this is genuine U.S. currency, and because we will now pack up our entirely legitimate funds and absent ourselves from this place." "And if these gentlemen from Treasury were to arrest you because of all the circumstantial evidence that you have counterfeited this 'real' money..." "The case would fall of its own weight, under the expert handling of some of the finest Philadelphia lawyers this real money can buy". "Because, clearly, this is not what we call 'funny money'." "Oh, how sweetly you grasp the reality." "Reality is in the eye of the beholder. Take a look." The counterfeiter examines the money under a high powered microscope. "Check out the fifth window from the left in the common house". The counterfeiter does, though it's no easy task, requiring as it does, complete magnification to bring up the image Batman refers to. And the image, within this wonderfully drawn Gene Ha tale, is a 1950's drawn smiling and waving Batman from the window of the White House standing in front of the words "YOU ARE SO BUSTED". END A really fun little story and one I wish were better known. RIP Mr. Ellison
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 29, 2018 12:10:44 GMT -5
This issue comes up every now and then as "that Batman story written by Harlan Ellison" and when it does, I sometimes like to direct people to Batman: Gotham Knights # 13 which featured a Batman Black and white back-up penned by Ellison and pencilled by Gene Ha from 2001. I didn't bring it up earlier for fear of disrupting the flow of this thread, but with Ellison's passing, I thought if now's not the time, then when? Thanks for this, chadwilliam. I never heard of this Gotham Knights story. (I don't think I ever read an issue of Gotham Knights.) I'm sorry that Harlan Ellison is no longer with us. I've really not read that much of his work (but I love Dangerous Visions!) and I've been meaning to read more of his stuff. I really need to start looking around for more Harlan Ellison writing. P.S. When he was selling his comic book collection, I bought his copy of Kamandi #1 for $50! A bargain at half the price!
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 29, 2018 12:40:24 GMT -5
I read "Blind Justice" in Detective Comics #598, #599 and #600 over the last few days. I read this when it first came out because my roommate had just seen the Batman movie and he was a big Batman fan for about a year. "Blind Justice" must have come out shortly after the movie because this is the first issue of Detective Comics I remember reading after I had quit reading Batman about #580. And it makes sense because "Blind Justice" was written by Sam Hamm, who wrote the Batman screenplay. I read "Blind Justice" again a few years ago (2011 or 2012, probably) when I was filling in the gaps in my Detective Comics collection. I didn't like it either of those first two times. But this time, I went into it trying as hard as I could to forget that I had ever read Batman. I had very much enjoyed Batman in the late 1970s and most of the 1980s (and I must confess that from the late "New Look" (about Detective Comics #359) to the end of the Len Wein era (about #567), it's all the same Batman to me) and it took a while for me to accept a "new" Batman. So this time, I decided to try to cast away my prejudices about late 1980s Batman and confront "Blind Justice" on its own terms. And it comes off very well! The art is great! I don't always like Denys Cowan but Dick Giordano is a great inker for him! The story is a very strong effort from Sam Hamm. It's a lot better than his awful Batman script. (That's a critique for another time. I saw the Batman movie several times because my roommate kept wanting to see it … and I was also hoping it would get better if I saw it again. I had been very disappointed the first time I saw it. But repeated viewings just solidified my opinion that it was not very good.) I like the way "Blind Justice" delves into Bruce Wayne's past, that legendary era of Wayne's life when he was roaming the world and hanging out with the Parisian Underworld and living in monasteries and training with assassins and learning about poisons and counterfeiting and cigarette ash and how to identify mud at a glance. I especially like all the scenes with Henri Ducard, who may be Sam Hamm's best addition to the Batman mythos. If I was writing Batman, I would use Ducard. (Henri Ducard is a much better story element than the idea that Thomas and Martha Wayne were killed by the gangster who latter became the Joker, which is just stupid.) "Blind Justice" is a very different Batman story. I think of it as a one-shot story about a guy who dresses like a bat and fights crime, not as a part of a massive super-hero epic that has been going on for almost eighty years. It works A LOT better that way.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jun 30, 2018 2:09:01 GMT -5
Once again, I'm enjoying the Wagner/Grant/Breyfogle issues a lot more in the present than I did in the past. Detective Comics #601 to #603 features a three-part supernatural story that guest stars Etrigan, but only for the last half of the last issue. Jason Blood doesn't appear in the first part, but even after he does show up at the beginning of #602, he doesn't want to summon Etrigan, he just wants to play chess with Randu Singh. So when Batman needs help in fighting a terrifying, six-armed demon from Tibetan mythology, Randu Singh volunteers to help. Etrigan was in his rhyming stage when this was written and Wagner and Grant do a marvelous job with his dialogue! That's half the battle when writing Etrigan. I keep thinking we MUST be getting close to all those consecutive bad issues that I remember from this period, but so far, it's not happening. Up next is Mudpack, which I thought was pretty cool back in 1989, but I didn't think it had aged well when I read it in 2011 or 2012.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 30, 2018 10:15:42 GMT -5
I remember the hype about “Blind Justice” when those books came out and was incredibly underwhelmed. I recall being less whelmed on a later re-read. Some day I may give it another shot but the story simply didn’t work for me at all. And that was many many years ago when I was a much less discerning consumer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 13:39:56 GMT -5
Hoosier XThis is a gorgeous cover ... a very rare cover showcasing purple and one of my favorites ...
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 2, 2018 11:36:31 GMT -5
"The Mud Pack" sure sounds like a good idea, bringing together all the DC characters who have operated under the code name "Clayface" over the decades. And I remember liking it back in 1989 when I skimmed my roommate's copies when he was going through his "Batman" phase. But when I bought my own copies a few years ago, I was seriously underwhelmed. I don't think I really read them all that closely back in 1989 and I'm pretty sure I didn't read the fourth chapter. It's a four-part adventure in Detective Comics #604 to #607. The original Clayface (Basil Karlo) is out of prison and he starts gathering all the other Clayface characters for a spectacular and complicated revenge on Batman. The first problem is that my favorite Clayface, Matt Hagen, was killed in the Crisis, and Karlo is unable to resurrect his muddy husk. I would love to see the awesome Matt Hagen taking a larger role in this adventure. His pathetic presence as an inanimate, vaguely human-shaped orange blob is mostly a reminder that they didn't bring back the best Clayface! And then, Karlo's plan … it's just so off the rails so much of the time. I could do without just about every panel where Batman is bound in the La Scala theater and dealing with his fears and nightmares. The character Looker guest stars. I think "The Mud Pack" is the only storyline I've ever seen with her. She was in Batman and the Outsiders for a while, but I had quit reading it by then. I don't have a problem with the character. I rather like her. But she seems rather out of place in this story, like she was forced into the narrative to give her some exposure. I'm still sorting out the weird romance between Preston Payne and Lady Clayface. I used to think it was really dumb, but over time, I've come to think it reads like something Bob Haney would do. And I now think it was a nice (if undeniably goofy) way to end the story. I have no idea if Preston Payne and Lady Clayface ever appeared again. This ending works great if they are allowed to fade into the sunset, their eventual fate left up to the reader's whim.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 2, 2018 11:48:27 GMT -5
I have no idea if Preston Payne and Lady Clayface ever appeared again. This ending works great if they are allowed to fade into the sunset, their eventual fate left up to the reader's whim. Given how long you've read funnybooks, particularly superhero funnybooks, how likely do you think it is that they didn't appear again?
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 3, 2018 12:25:05 GMT -5
I have no idea if Preston Payne and Lady Clayface ever appeared again. This ending works great if they are allowed to fade into the sunset, their eventual fate left up to the reader's whim. Given how long you've read funnybooks, particularly superhero funnybooks, how likely do you think it is that they didn't appear again? I'm pretty sure they appeared again. I just don't want to know about it.
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Post by brutalis on Jul 3, 2018 14:04:11 GMT -5
Given how long you've read funnybooks, particularly superhero funnybooks, how likely do you think it is that they didn't appear again? I'm pretty sure they appeared again. I just don't want to know about it. Pretty much not wanting to know is my feelings on most of the changes to my heroes and villains being done today. There are some good things being done but so much more that makes me ask WHY?!?
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