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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 15, 2016 8:17:03 GMT -5
If nothing radioactive can travel through time, shouldn't that prevent the cosmically-irradiated FF from time traveling?
Cei-U! I summon my--and Stan Lee's--shaky grasp of physics!
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,057
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Post by Confessor on Jul 15, 2016 8:32:03 GMT -5
The Amazing Spider-Man #5
Story Title: “Marked for Destruction by Doctor Doom!” Cover Date: October 1963 CreditsScript: Stan Lee Pencils: Steve Ditko Inks: Steve Ditko Colors: Stan Goldberg Letters: Sam Rosen Cover Art: Steve Ditko (pencils & inks) Synopsis: The story opens with J.J. Jameson hosting a television program intending to expose Spider-Man as a threat. Peter Parker is with this high-school friends at a local bowling alley and pretends to side with Jameson on the issue. This riles up Flash Thompson, who happens to idolizes Spider-Man, and causes him to mock Peter. Doctor Doom, receiving the transmission from a nearby secret base, hatches a plan to trick Spider-Man into helping him defeat the Fantastic Four. Using a transmitter interfacing with a spider, Doom is able to communicate with Spider-Man directly which leads Spider-Man to Doom’s lair. Doom suggests that they join forces, but when Spider-Man turns him down, a battle ensues resulting in Spider-Man being forced out of the lair and into the river. Before Spider-Man can resume his attempt to thwart Doom, the abandoned building Doom was using as a base explodes, allowing Doom to escape. Meanwhile, Flash Thompson dresses up as Spider-Man in an attempt to scare Parker as a prank. Doom decides to track and capture Spider-Man and use him as bait for the Fantastic Four. Just before Flash can scare Parker, who happens to be walking on the other side of a fence, Doom arrives and mistakenly captures Flash. Doom takes control of the local television stations and announces that he has captured Spider-Man and demands that the FF disband and surrender to him or he’ll kill Spider-Man. Parker sees this, and after deducing that Doom has captured Flash, he manages to get away from his Aunt May by removing a fuse is the basement. Under the pretense that he’s going out to get a new one, he changes to his Spider-Man garb and heads for the final confrontation with Doom. An epic battle ensues with Doom employing various technological devices against Spider-Man, with Spidey using ever bit of his power to stay alive. Just as Doom seems to be getting the upper hand, the Fantastic Four arrive, and not being prepared to battled Spidey and the FF at the same time, Doom escapes. Remembering that he left his Aunt May, Spidey quickly leaves for home, having forgotten all about Flash Thompson. The FF arrive and find Thompson free of his prison, but the Human Torch, having had several run-ins with Spider-Man, quickly tells the team that there is no way Flash is the real Spider-Man. The next day, Parker goes to school assuming that Flash will be seen as an embarrassment, but to his surprise, Flash has spun the story to make himself look like a hero. Character Appearances: Spider-Man [Peter Parker]; Dr. Doom [Victor Von Doom]; J. Jonah Jameson; Betty Brant (first name revealed); Flash Thompson (last name revealed); Liz Allen (last name revealed as Allan); May Parker; Fantastic Four [Mr. Fantastic [Reed Richards]; The Thing [Ben Grimm]; Invisible Girl [Sue Storm]; Human Torch [Johnny Storm]] Comments: The most interesting aspect of this issue to me is how it sets up Doom as the premiere super-villain of the Marvel Universe. This is the first time Doom has appeared outside the pages of Fantastic Four and he works surprisingly well as a temporary Spider-Man villain. At this point we're still being told, rather than shown, how superior Doom is compared to your average villain, but you can’t help but feel that he’s not just boasting given his presence. He actually tells Spidey at one point that he’s more than his usual “insipid” adversaries. If it wasn’t for the arrival of the FF he probably would have defeated Spider-Man. That’s basically a victory in Silver Age terms. I have to admit that I don’t care for Ditko’s rendition of Doom in this issue. He just doesn’t have the style to properly display the grandeur and menace of Doom in the same way the Kirby does. To be fair, Ditko, like Kirby, was still being overworked at this point and his art greatly improved by the time his was focusing on Spider-Man and Dr. Strange. I’m still amused at Stan’s habit of apologizing to the reader for what he seems to view as a slow start to the issue. Here’s the example from this particular issue: Now from what I’ve always understood of the Marvel Method, Stan would usually come up with the plot, but the pace and storytelling was left up to the artist. So, basically, the choice of pacing was all Ditko. I can’t help but think that this would have irked most artists and perhaps even insulted them. This sort of thing was somewhat frequent in the early half of the Marvel Age but seems to disappear later on. Either Stan learns a lesson at some point or it’s yet another byproduct of Kirby and Ditko being overworked. Whatever the story is behind these editorial comments, I find it fascinating. (This sort of thing would never happen today! Could you imagine the butt-hurt if someone did this to Bendis or some super-star artist?!) Character Development: This issue marks the beginning of the ill-fated Parker/Brant romance. Betty speaks up for Peter twice in the presence of Jameson and Parker, for the first time, notices how attractive she is. At this point Liz does little more than chide Peter for not being a “he-man” like Flash Thompson. We also see clearly that Flash, while having great taste in superheroes, is little more than a cowardly blowhard when put in real danger. Personal Rating: 7. The issue has its flaws, mainly with the somewhat underwhelming art, but the story is engaging and does a good job incorporating most of Spider-Man’s supporting cast in interesting and clever ways. Historical Rating: 10. The main significance is the first meeting of Spider-Man and Dr. Doom and to a greater extent the use of Doom outside the pages of The Fantastic Four. This is the issue that establishes Doom as the greatest villain in the Marvel Universe outside of the context of the Fantastic Four and would influence the approach of numerous creators to come. Since Spider-Man’s stories have always been famous for their use of romance, the beginnings of Peter Parker’s first real relationship is a key development in the series. Great review, Robert. Very insightful. ASM #5 is one of my all-time favourite comics, ever. I first encountered it as a ten-year-old in 1982 when it was reprinted in Marvel Tales #142. I read and re-read that sucker until it almost fell apart. It's just a fantastic issue. On the subject of Dr. Doom, although he's clearly first and foremost a Fantastic Four villain, I think this issue -- comings, as it does, so early on in Spidey's publishing history and in Doom's own publishing history -- makes a good case for him also being considered a bona fide Spider-Man villain too. As you noted, he actually makes a really good adversary for Spidey. Certainly, I've always considered Doom to be a part of Spidey's rogue gallery and they have tangled on a number of occasions since this issue. I know that you were a bit underwhelmed by the art, but I love Ditko's work in this issue -- it's so packed with detail and carries the story and emotions of the respective characters so well. The sequence where Flash is waiting for Peter Parker while disguised as Spider-Man, but ends up getting gassed and captured by Doom, as Peter walks by on the other side of the fence, is brilliantly executed. There are ample examples of simply fantastic sequential artwork like this throughout the story. This is also a great issue for Flash Thompson, who really gets to shine in all his thick-headed, bullying, but ultimately cowardly glory. It's interesting that you're critical of Ditko's work in this issue. Although I hadn't thought about it until reading your review, I guess you're right that these early issues of ASM aren't drawn quite as meticulously as some of the later issues from Ditko's tenure on the book. Still, like I say, there's plenty of inventive panel composition, some wonderful background detailing and all those, oh-so-expressive faces of Ditko's. I must say that I also love the inventiveness and cunning of the traps in Doom's lair, as well as the robot double of Doom that initially confronts Spidey (was this the first ever appearance of, what would come to be known as, a Doombot?). The FF turning up at the end is a really nice touch too and serves to reinforce the idea of the shared Marvel Universe.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 15, 2016 8:38:43 GMT -5
I agree with all you say about Ditko. Understand that I'm a huge Ditko fan, but I'm trying to judge these early issues "objectively." Ditko is MUCH better than he appears here, even though historically it's a classic issue. His art by the time we get to the Master Planner saga is so vastly superior to this issue that it's glaring to me. Once again, just like Kirby, I think this had everything to do with him being spread out over so many titles early on. That said...I just never liked how he drew Doom in this issue. The storytelling, as always, is flawless.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 15, 2016 8:40:37 GMT -5
If nothing radioactive can travel through time, shouldn't that prevent the cosmically-irradiated FF from time traveling? Cei-U! I summon my--and Stan Lee's--shaky grasp of physics! Daaamn. I didn't even think of that. I assume it only applies to...inanimate objects?
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 15, 2016 10:53:27 GMT -5
If nothing radioactive can travel through time, shouldn't that prevent the cosmically-irradiated FF from time traveling? Cei-U! I summon my--and Stan Lee's--shaky grasp of physics! Daaamn. I didn't even think of that. I assume it only applies to...inanimate objects? Or maybe the FF were affected by radiation in the past but are not currently radioactive?
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 15, 2016 11:01:53 GMT -5
Daaamn. I didn't even think of that. I assume it only applies to...inanimate objects? Or maybe the FF were affected by radiation in the past but are not currently radioactive? Ah, but her irradiated blood was killing the pregnant Sue in Fantastic Four Annual 6, necessitating the team's trip to the Negative Zone therein. There was also Giant-Size Super-Stars #1, in which Bruce Banner tried to use the gamma radiation in his body to cancel out the cosmic radiation in Ben's and vice versa, curing them both (though it swapped their minds instead). Cei-U! I summon the lck of wiggle room!
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 15, 2016 11:23:14 GMT -5
Or maybe the FF were affected by radiation in the past but are not currently radioactive? Ah, but her irradiated blood was killing the pregnant Sue in Fantastic Four Annual 6, necessitating the team's trip to the Negative Zone therein. There was also Giant-Size Super-Stars #1, in which Bruce Banner tried to use the gamma radiation in his body to cancel out the cosmic radiation in Ben's and vice versa, curing them both (though it swapped their minds instead). Cei-U! I summon the lck of wiggle room! OK, so maybe cosmic radiation is different from regular radioactivity - different enough to go thru the time machine? BTW, the whole question of why Reed and other super-geniuses don't ever invent anything that makes ordinary people's lives better is explored in Planetary by Warren Ellis.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 15, 2016 11:49:28 GMT -5
Ah, but her irradiated blood was killing the pregnant Sue in Fantastic Four Annual 6, necessitating the team's trip to the Negative Zone therein. There was also Giant-Size Super-Stars #1, in which Bruce Banner tried to use the gamma radiation in his body to cancel out the cosmic radiation in Ben's and vice versa, curing them both (though it swapped their minds instead). Cei-U! I summon the lck of wiggle room! OK, so maybe cosmic radiation is different from regular radioactivity - different enough to go thru the time machine? BTW, the whole question of why Reed and other super-geniuses don't ever invent anything that makes ordinary people's lives better is explored in Planetary by Warren Ellis. It's because people laughed at Hank Pym when he invented Pym Particles. Because it would be no boon at all to shipping to be able to shrink things.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 15, 2016 21:08:38 GMT -5
I always assumed they DO make things to make people's lives better.. that's why the FF has money (they mention when they're lot on cash that Reed whips of some stuff to patent and sell at least once that I recall), and Tony Stark certainly does stuff in energy, and at various points share Iron Man tech with law enforcement.
The average Joe doesn't have stuff like Quinjets and the Fantasticar because building one spiffy flying car is entirely different from being about to mass produce them at an affordable price.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 16, 2016 1:24:29 GMT -5
Honestly, it's not something that bothers me, I just think it's an interesting conceit, particularly in the more culturally relevant Marvel Universe. I guess you could say that biological concerns, like genetic disorders and diseases, have always been more difficult to deal with compared to technological innovations, in and out of the Marvel Universe.
At the other end of the spectrum the vast superiority of space travel technology in the Marvel Universe, compared to our own, would render something like NASA obsolete. NASA was still cruising with their space shuttle program while Doom had long since invented a hyperdrive. These sort of examples add up to my belief that super-hero comics are best enjoyed when they're slightly comical and tongue-in-cheek. They don't have to be goofy, and can still be epic and dramatic when the need arises, but when they get all dark and serious everything breaks down for me.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 16, 2016 3:35:15 GMT -5
Journey Into Mystery #97 Story Title: “The Lava Man” Cover Date: October, 1963 CreditsScript: Stan Lee Pencils: Jack Kirby Inks: Don Heck Colors: Stan Goldberg Letters: Artie Simek Cover Art: Jack Kirby (pencils); George Roussos (inks) Synopsis: Thor heroically saves a fighter pilot and prevents his jet from crashing into the city. Reverting back to Don Blake, he struggles with wanting to reveal his true feelings for Jane Foster, but decides that he must first consult Odin for permission. Transforming into Thor, he consults Odin but the All-Father denies he request to marry Foster. Jane reveals that she can’t work for a man who’s too timid to show his true feelings for her and says that she’s leaving to work for another doctor. Meanwhile, the city is in a panic over a mysterious Lava Man who is causing destruction as he nears the city. Loki is once again behind the mayhem, as he unleashed him from a volcano while still being imprisoned in Asgard. Blake has been oblivious to this and caught up in his own thoughts about Jane, but soon notices the heavy military presence. The army attempts to stop the Lava Man, but their weapons can’t harm him. He easily destroys their weapons and says that he is claiming the surface world for his people. Blake transforms into Thor and the two do battle. The Lava Man proves to be a powerful foe, and manages to used dried lava to trap Thor temporarily, but Thor breaks free and uses his hammer to spin the Lava Man into the air and manages to seal him inside a volcano, defeating him. Blake arrives back at his office just in time to see Jane leaving with her new boss, Dr. Bruce Andrews, and berates him for not checking on her while the Lava Man was rampaging in the city. Distraught, Blake sadly stares out his office window. Character Appearances: Thor [Doctor Donald Blake]; the Lava Man (introduction); Jane Foster; Odin; Loki; Doctor Bruce Andrews (introduction) Comments: This issue marks the true beginning of the Lee/Kirby run on Thor. Lee plots and scripts this issue, and even though it features a somewhat generic menace, we do get to see some progression in the Blake/Foster relationship. Lee’s certainly getting better at injecting pathos into his stories and it makes this issue a bit more interesting because of it. This can be awkward in this shorter stories, though. Loki and the Lava Man almost come off as afterthoughts as it seems to me that Lee was far more interested in progressing the romance between Blake and Foster. I’m not a big fan of Heck’s inks over Kirby’s pencils; I’m going to assume that Kirby only did layouts and this explains why the faces of the characters were all Heck. The art styles are just too dissimilar and do not mesh well at all in my view. I did like the way the Lava Man came out and it seems that that Heck more or less left him alone. Character Development: Jane has finally had enough of Blake dragging his feet and quits. I always find it hilarious how blunt Lee’s women can be when it comes to romantic situations; “Dr. Andrews drove me to the suburbs—looked after me! A woman wants a MAN Dr. Blake—not a timid mouse! And so, I’m leaving…” Ouch. This story is also the first real sign to the reader that Odin is a grade-A dick. I love Silver Age Odin and his now legendary orneriness will only increase as the Lee/Kirby run builds up steam. Personal Rating: 6. A generic story and sub-par art is elevated from the mediocre by Kirby’s great action set pieces and the Blake/Foster/Odin dramatics. Historical Rating: 8. I struggled on this one, but I do think this is a fairly significant story given the forward momentum between Blake and Foster. If nothing else, it being the first true Lee/Kirby Thor story makes it important. The Lava Man would return, and his race would become more important in the future, but as far as this issue goes he’s the least important aspect.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 16, 2016 4:18:48 GMT -5
Journey Into Mystery #97 Story Title: “Tales of…Asgard! Home of the Mighty Norse Gods” CreditsScript: Stan Lee Pencils: Jack Kirby Inks: George Roussos [as G. Bell] Colors: Stan Goldberg Letters: Artie Simek Synopsis: After an introduction to the ancient Norsemen/Vikings, we are taken on a brief tour of Norse mythology. We learn that the gods live in a place bordered by mist and fire. At the end of the world, Surtur, a great fire demon waits with a flaming sword for the day when he will destroy gods and men alike. Beneath Asgard lies the Well of Life. From it came Ymir, greatest of the Frost Giants, a magic cow that provided nourishment for Ymir, and Buri, the first Norse God who later had a son named Borr. Borr had three sons, one named Odin. Odin would become the greatest of the Norse gods and would slay the last of the frost giants. Finally, Odin and his brothers turned their attention to Earth. They set a mystical ring around it as well as the magic tree Yggdrasill. Character Appearances: Odin (origin); Surtur (introduction); Ymir (introduction, origin); Buri (introduction, origin, cameo); Borr (introduction, origin, cameo); Audhumbla (called "Magic Cow"); Vili (unnamed, origin, cameo); Vé (unnamed, origin, cameo); Bestla (unnamed, cameo) Comments: Ah, Tales of Asgard. This is series is by far my favorite backup feature that I’ve ever read in comics. This first installment is little more than Norse Mythology 101, but this series will evolve and become so much more as time goes on. Kirby’s art is dynamic here and it’s clear to me that he was much more excited about Tales than he was the main feature in this issue. I particularly love his epic rendition of Ymir. Character Development: N/A Personal Rating: 8. Even though it was little more than a history lesson, I loved seeing Kirby taking on “pure” Norse mythology for the first time. I also got some distinct Prince Valiant vibes from this story. I know that Kirby was a huge admirer of Hal Foster and I have little doubt that Valiant was a major influence on Tales of Asgard. Historical Rating: 9. Tales of Asgard would greatly expand on the Marvel version of Norse mythology and make Thor’s mythos even more exciting. Eventually we’ll see the introduction of completely original characters, most notably The Warrior’s Three.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 16, 2016 7:30:05 GMT -5
A minor quibble: it's Dr. Basil Andrews, not Bruce (his first name isn't given in this story at all, actually). That aside, great write-up!
Cei-U! I summon the misidentification!
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 16, 2016 10:29:30 GMT -5
A minor quibble: it's Dr. Basil Andrews, not Bruce (his first name isn't given in this story at all, actually). That aside, great write-up! Cei-U! I summon the misidentification! Once again, GCD screws me! I need to proofread their stuff before I copy and paste from now on. Thanks for the catch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2016 19:00:11 GMT -5
Journey Into Mystery #97
It has a great backup story that I like and I do like the dramatics of the cover that was done by Kirby and Roussos and the story that was written Stan Lee was very good considering this his first Thor story (I think?) and I consider this story more significant than you think. You've gave it a grade of "8" ... I would give it a "10" because the Lava Man is one of the most significant and unusual character that Thor ever fought and that's gives him a worthy challenge. When, I think of Mighty Thor it is this issue would be in the top 5 for one of his greatest adventures and the backup story is a worthy story itself and I consider an landmark story of which it was superb and grandiosely written by Lee.
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