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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 1:26:20 GMT -5
Bad loss for the 49ers. Not a shock though. At some point you need players. We're missing like 10 or so starters. Our offensive line has been a joke all season due to the shuffling around. And now we have more players that got hurt in tonight's game. Our backup left guard had to play center at one point because our first two starters got hurt. It was like musical chairs on the line as the game progressed. I had never seen anything like it. And we had only three healthy corners to finish the game. Crazy. I expected this to be a loss at the beginning of the year, but not a blowout. Unfortunately it is what it is. We've had a blowout before and went to the Super Bowl (2012 at Seattle). I'm not that worried heading into the bye at 4-3, although I didn't think the Cardinals would be leading the division. At least we're ahead of the Seahawks. We need to get Bowman, Aldon Smith, and Willis back as soon as possible. Also we need our corners to get healthy. Tramaine Brock clearly wasn't ready to come back. Chris Cook is hurt, and Chris Culliver didn't play. Time to regroup and prepare for the Rams at home. By the way the receivers might actually want to work on, oh I don't know, catching the ball. Especially Vernon Davis. It's the NFL-players get hurt, next man up. Win with what you got or go home. The Cowboys last year were essentially signing guys off the street each week to start on defense because of injuries and when all was said and done, no one cared or used but we had injuries excuse to let them off the hook. This year, they again have significant injuries on defense, but they are still getting the job done. No one was saying oh poor Cowboys they don't have Sean Lee when they came out and stunk up the joint in the first half against the Niners in the season opener. It was: they aren't performing with what they have and here we go again, they stink. They turned it around, in the second half, but fell short. The next week they got it done and have continued to do so, and are currently the toast of the league again. But if someone gets hurt and they go on a losing streak, no one will excuse them or feel sorry for them. And no one is saying, oh poor Seahawks, or poor Rams losing Sam Bradford. You win with what you have or you sit at home and watch the good teams in the playoffs. Aldon Smith is where he is because he puts himself above his team. When your team invests a good chunk of salary cap space in any guy it hurts their depth, and when it's a guy like that who takes himself off the field because he can't handle his business, it forces several people to have to step up, and if it's a good team players do, and if its a mediocre team like the Niners this season, it bites them in the ass and could cost them a playoff berth in the long term. The bye week will help the Niners a little, but it can't fix what ails that team at its core this season. Fans can make excuses, teams have to find solutions, and the Niners haven't been able to. Their issues may be more institutional and the injury crisis just exposes the consequences of it. Can they turn it around? Sure. Everyone wrote off the Patriots a few weeks ago and now they are tearing it up. But you do or you die. Injuries are a smokescreen excuse. Every team deals with injuries and often significant ones. Good teams over come them, not-good teams use them to cover their failure to overcome adversity the way good teams do. -M |
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Oct 20, 2014 3:23:30 GMT -5
Bad loss for the 49ers. Not a shock though. At some point you need players. We're missing like 10 or so starters. Our offensive line has been a joke all season due to the shuffling around. And now we have more players that got hurt in tonight's game. Our backup left guard had to play center at one point because our first two starters got hurt. It was like musical chairs on the line as the game progressed. I had never seen anything like it. And we had only three healthy corners to finish the game. Crazy. I expected this to be a loss at the beginning of the year, but not a blowout. Unfortunately it is what it is. We've had a blowout before and went to the Super Bowl (2012 at Seattle). I'm not that worried heading into the bye at 4-3, although I didn't think the Cardinals would be leading the division. At least we're ahead of the Seahawks. We need to get Bowman, Aldon Smith, and Willis back as soon as possible. Also we need our corners to get healthy. Tramaine Brock clearly wasn't ready to come back. Chris Cook is hurt, and Chris Culliver didn't play. Time to regroup and prepare for the Rams at home. By the way the receivers might actually want to work on, oh I don't know, catching the ball. Especially Vernon Davis. It's the NFL-players get hurt, next man up. Win with what you got or go home. The Cowboys last year were essentially signing guys off the street each week to start on defense because of injuries and when all was said and done, no one cared or used but we had injuries excuse to let them off the hook. This year, they again have significant injuries on defense, but they are still getting the job done. No one was saying oh poor Cowboys they don't have Sean Lee when they came out and stunk up the joint in the first half against the Niners in the season opener. It was: they aren't performing with what they have and here we go again, they stink. They turned it around, in the second half, but fell short. The next week they got it done and have continued to do so, and are currently the toast of the league again. But if someone gets hurt and they go on a losing streak, no one will excuse them or feel sorry for them. And no one is saying, oh poor Seahawks, or poor Rams losing Sam Bradford. You win with what you have or you sit at home and watch the good teams in the playoffs. Aldon Smith is where he is because he puts himself above his team. When your team invests a good chunk of salary cap space in any guy it hurts their depth, and when it's a guy like that who takes himself off the field because he can't handle his business, it forces several people to have to step up, and if it's a good team players do, and if its a mediocre team like the Niners this season, it bites them in the ass and could cost them a playoff berth in the long term. The bye week will help the Niners a little, but it can't fix what ails that team at its core this season. Fans can make excuses, teams have to find solutions, and the Niners haven't been able to. Their issues may be more institutional and the injury crisis just exposes the consequences of it. Can they turn it around? Sure. Everyone wrote off the Patriots a few weeks ago and now they are tearing it up. But you do or you die. Injuries are a smokescreen excuse. Every team deals with injuries and often significant ones. Good teams over come them, not-good teams use them to cover their failure to overcome adversity the way good teams do. -M Well, it's easy to sit on your couch and say something like that, but the reality is that the NFL isn't checkers. No matter how good your coaching is, if you don't have the players you don't have the players. Do you think the Broncos would look the same if they didn't have Peyton Manning? Or if their defense was missing Aqib Talib, Chris Harris, Terrance Knighton, DeMarcus Ware, and Von Miller? Would Seattle's defense look the same if Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, and Earl Thomas were hurt? How did the Colts do in 2011 when Manning didn't play the entire year? And I'm sure the Patriots would still be "tearing it up" without Tom Brady. Even if they do play in the AFC East. As for the Cowboys, you're talking about one player. They got lucky and stumbled upon McClain who has looked just as good if not better. If Romo or Murray were both out do you think the Cowboys would continue to win games? Could they just "next man up it"? What difference makers have they lost? The 49ers at one point tonight had one player from their 2013 starting defense out on the field. You can't miss guys like Bowman, Aldon Smith, Willis, Culliver, Ward, or have Brock playing injured because other players are injured and expect to replicate the same degree of success. Especially when going up against the Broncos on the road on a short week. It just isn't going to happen. It wasn't just the D either. The offensive line was playing musical chairs all night. It got so bad that we had our backup left guard playing center which he had never done before in a real game. All because our first two centers got hurt in the game. The "next man up" mantra is just another catch phrase in the long list of lazy catch phrases in football that really don't have any substance to them and people just throw around to sound smart. But if you actually use context and perspective when looking at each situation specially, you'll realize it's not that black and white. There is a reason why high profile starters get paid high profile money. There is a reason why guys in the draft get taken earlier than others. If it was "next man up no problem" everyone would get paid the same. And Sam Bradford has sucked for the Rams. So I'm not sure what you were getting at there. The Rams have actually upgraded with Austin Davis in part because it's hard to do worse with Sam. I was actually hoping the Rams would be stupid enough to extend him. And the Seahawks aren't really in a huge hole right now. Also, no one is making excuses for Aldon Smith. The reality is that he's a good player though and there is going to be a noticeable difference when he's out. Those are just the facts regardless of why he isn't here. And just for the record, I'm not in a panic as a fan. We're 4-3 heading into the bye. We are going to get some key players back soon. We finish with four of our final six games at home and all six games in PST. I had already chalked up the Denver game as a loss earlier. Didn't expect it to this degree, but given the situation it's not a complete shock. I don't feel that bad though because I know we're a better team when we aren't playing with half our starters out. You can say folks are making excuses. That's fine. Just as long as you recognize that circumstances that plague teams, and this one in particular, are factual. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 8:18:17 GMT -5
The NFL isn't checkers, but it's simple, you win or you go home. Part of what makes a good team is depth and the ability to overcome adversity. And the Cowboys have lost more than one player to injury this season, and even McClain has missed time due to injury. And if Romo and Murray were out, they either find a way to win or they go home. It doesn't matter who played last year, or even last week. It's find a way to win with who you have this week or not. NExt man up is not a lazy catch phrase, it's reality. If Kapernik gets hurt, the Niners find someone else or they become a bad team. If they stay a bad team, they lose attendance and prominent TV slots (no Monday night or Sunday night games, no game of the week, etc.) and lose revenue from jersey sales and such. How many high draft picks have the Raiders, Jags, and Browns had the past decade? Hasn't made them good teams, because when it came time to perform on gameday, they didn't. Personnel is part of the game. Understanding you will lose players, even key players to injury and having contingencies in place is what separates the good teams from the rest, the good GM from the rest.
It's easy as a fan to sit on the couch and say my team would be great if there were no injuries. No team has no injuries. Injuries are part of the NFL landscape. Saying we would win if we were all healthy is lazy fan justification and part of the denial process fans have when they don't want to see and admit what their team really is. Players come and go. Good players come and go. Good teams find ways to win with the players they have. Maybe it was a bad week for the Niners. Maybe it's been a bad couple of weeks for the Seahawks. Or maybe they are just not as good as people thought they were this year. If they make the playoffs and have a good run there, they will have shown they have the makings of a good team. If not, a lot of those key players "we would have won with if they were healthy" won't be playing for the team anymore as they will retool as every team does every season because 31 or 32 teams every year have fallen short and people will lose their jobs because of it.
It is simple. There are reasons why things happen sometimes, but when they happen, you ether find a solution or you make excuses. If you are making excuses, you are admitting you don't have what it takes to overcome adversity. That's not just in football either. Or as Yoda said, there is no try, there is either do or do not.
-M
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:51:41 GMT -5
Mannone offered to refund ticket and travel costs for Sunderland fans after Southampton's 8-0 thrashing.
I'm curious to see what happens to Monk as a result of his cheating accusations.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Oct 20, 2014 14:07:57 GMT -5
The NFL isn't checkers, but it's simple, you win or you go home. Part of what makes a good team is depth and the ability to overcome adversity. And the Cowboys have lost more than one player to injury this season, and even McClain has missed time due to injury. And if Romo and Murray were out, they either find a way to win or they go home. It doesn't matter who played last year, or even last week. It's find a way to win with who you have this week or not. NExt man up is not a lazy catch phrase, it's reality. If Kapernik gets hurt, the Niners find someone else or they become a bad team. If they stay a bad team, they lose attendance and prominent TV slots (no Monday night or Sunday night games, no game of the week, etc.) and lose revenue from jersey sales and such. How many high draft picks have the Raiders, Jags, and Browns had the past decade? Hasn't made them good teams, because when it came time to perform on gameday, they didn't. Personnel is part of the game. Understanding you will lose players, even key players to injury and having contingencies in place is what separates the good teams from the rest, the good GM from the rest. It's easy as a fan to sit on the couch and say my team would be great if there were no injuries. No team has no injuries. Injuries are part of the NFL landscape. Saying we would win if we were all healthy is lazy fan justification and part of the denial process fans have when they don't want to see and admit what their team really is. Players come and go. Good players come and go. Good teams find ways to win with the players they have. Maybe it was a bad week for the Niners. Maybe it's been a bad couple of weeks for the Seahawks. Or maybe they are just not as good as people thought they were this year. If they make the playoffs and have a good run there, they will have shown they have the makings of a good team. If not, a lot of those key players "we would have won with if they were healthy" won't be playing for the team anymore as they will retool as every team does every season because 31 or 32 teams every year have fallen short and people will lose their jobs because of it. It is simple. There are reasons why things happen sometimes, but when they happen, you ether find a solution or you make excuses. If you are making excuses, you are admitting you don't have what it takes to overcome adversity. That's not just in football either. Or as Yoda said, there is no try, there is either do or do not. -M Sure the idea is simple. Executing it is completely different. Like I said if you don't have the players you don't have the players. I'm not sure how you can simply refute that was a simple catch phrase like "next man up" or "win or go home". That is why there are good teams and bad teams. Usually it's the personnel. The coaches can scheme it, but they can't execute it. You can have the best blueprints in the world, but if your players suck you aren't going anywhere. Yeah obviously the Cowboys would have to either find a way to win without Romo or Murray. But I'm asking you what do you think the results are without them in the line up? Do you believe they'd be able to continue the success they've having now? I didn't ask what they would have to try and do. The backups are the backups. I'm asking you what do you think would happen if they simply vanished tomorrow. How would Brandon Weeden fare the rest of the season in place of Romo for instance? Would you put money on the Cowboys continuing to win the way they have? Every team has injuries. But every team doesn't have 10 + starters out. Every team doesn't finish a game with three healthy corners and their backup left guard having to play center because their first two centers are hurt. There is only so much a team can take. The starters are starters for a reason. There is a reason why they get paid more. There is a reason why guys are drafted higher than others. No team just has players waiting in the wings to replace the quality of the starters they lost. Especially of All Pro talent. And you can keep quoting quotes from Empire Strikes Back, but that doesn't change anything. I know I wouldn't want Yoda involved with my organization with that line of thinking. It would be like saying "let's all just play rookies every year on the cheap because Yoda said 'do or do not' " With that logic why even spend money on anyone? I mean do or do not right? Anybody can do it! If you don't think injuries to key players will effect team performance, then I think you're being a little naive. Saying "they'll have to win a way to win" or "win or go home" (useless catch phrases) is irrelevant to the reality. This isn't a Disney movie. Your entire response didn't really address my point. Saying that you'll have to either find a way to win or go home is a given. Obviously. But like I keep trying to reiterate to you if you don't have the players you don't have the players. It would be like expecting every D-III college school that goes up against a D-I college to come out with a victory week in and week out despite the disadvantage in personnel. 99% of the time it isn't going to happen. And no, you don't simply get rid of the players that would have made you a better team if they would have been there had they not been injured. That doesn't make sense. Unless it's for cap reasons. Teams re-tool, they rebuild, but they don't self destruct and just get rid of all their talent because they missed some games due to being hurt. Like I said you can call them excuses, but they are the facts. And the facts have to be considered. Pretending like it doesn't matter is just being ignorant. The Broncos wouldn't be the team they are without Peyton Manning. Call it an excuse, but it's also a fact. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 14:46:09 GMT -5
Here's the point, you are only as good a team as your player son the field. On that we both agree. But if you don't have players, you're not a good team. If they are hurt or suspended and unavailable it is the same as not having those players. It's not we're a good team with bad luck, it's we're not a good enough team to win. If the Cowboys had to replace Romo and Murray I would say they would lose and be a bad team because they can't win, not cry oh we'd be a good team if only..or we're still a good team we just need to get healthy...nope they would be bad, And the Niners looked like a bad team on Sunday. And until the players they have on the field show otherwise, they will continue to be a bad team. You're right, it's not a Disney movie, it's the NFL and no one remembers what if teams, they remember who won and who lost. The Redskins lost a couple quarterback and won a Super Bowl with Doug Williams. No one says, yeah they were good but could have been better if they didn't have injuries, it was they won. Facts are only temporary. Truth is eternal. You win with what you have or you are not a good team is a truth. The fact of who is on the roster is a fluid fact, and facts can change. Facts are often used to try to justify or hide truth. That's all excuses are. Justifications for failure.
And here's the thing with your DI/DIII college analogy-the DIII schools don't have the same resources (money, staff, scholarships, etc.) to go recruit players that the the DI schools had. If the DIII school had equal opportunity to build it's team and still yielded an inferior team, that would say they are a poor organization. The Niners have the same resources as any other NFL team to field a team, the salary cap is the same, the access to undrafted players is the same, etc. etc. etc. If they can't field a team that is competitive enough and deep enough to compete every week, that's on them for not being a good organization, because every one of the NFL teams faces the same challenges and if the Niners roster is not up to snuff, that's on them, not an excuse.
-M
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Oct 20, 2014 17:22:28 GMT -5
Here's the point, you are only as good a team as your player son the field. On that we both agree. But if you don't have players, you're not a good team. If they are hurt or suspended and unavailable it is the same as not having those players. It's not we're a good team with bad luck, it's we're not a good enough team to win. If the Cowboys had to replace Romo and Murray I would say they would lose and be a bad team because they can't win, not cry oh we'd be a good team if only..or we're still a good team we just need to get healthy...nope they would be bad, And the Niners looked like a bad team on Sunday. And until the players they have on the field show otherwise, they will continue to be a bad team. You're right, it's not a Disney movie, it's the NFL and no one remembers what if teams, they remember who won and who lost. The Redskins lost a couple quarterback and won a Super Bowl with Doug Williams. No one says, yeah they were good but could have been better if they didn't have injuries, it was they won. Facts are only temporary. Truth is eternal. You win with what you have or you are not a good team is a truth. The fact of who is on the roster is a fluid fact, and facts can change. Facts are often used to try to justify or hide truth. That's all excuses are. Justifications for failure. And here's the thing with your DI/DIII college analogy-the DIII schools don't have the same resources (money, staff, scholarships, etc.) to go recruit players that the the DI schools had. If the DIII school had equal opportunity to build it's team and still yielded an inferior team, that would say they are a poor organization. The Niners have the same resources as any other NFL team to field a team, the salary cap is the same, the access to undrafted players is the same, etc. etc. etc. If they can't field a team that is competitive enough and deep enough to compete every week, that's on them for not being a good organization, because every one of the NFL teams faces the same challenges and if the Niners roster is not up to snuff, that's on them, not an excuse. -M Whether you choose to personally cry about a situation or not doesn't change the reality of the situation. How you take it as a fan is irrelevant. It's the facts. If you don't have the majority of your key starters that are good players you will see a drop in production from your team. The 49ers looked bad on Sunday. No one is denying this. But to ignore that they were missing a ton of key people that have been essentially to their success is just being ignorant. I'm not saying the 49ers would win the game if they had a lot of their guys back, but I doubt it would have been a blowout. If this had happened with the majority of our unit then I would be concerned. Seeing as we're 4-3 and the opponents we've faced thus far have a combined record of 21-4, I'm not trippin too much. The 49ers aren't a bad team because they lost to Denver. That's really just absurd and shows that you or anyone else that makes that statement doesn't follow the team closely if at all. Yeah they've beaten two teams with more than 5 wins. Oh my goodness so horrible. Typical knee jerk reaction that is all too familiar from casual fans. Especially when the team is over .500 after a brutal schedule and we aren't even at the midpoint of the season. And your tirade about who remembers what teams/what if teams is completely irrelevant to my original point. And it doesn't really make sense in the first place (lazy catchphrase). There are plenty of people that talk about teams that never won the Super Bowl. Or teams that were just historically bad. I hear more people talk about the 1998 Vikings than I do the 1991 Redskins for example. I hear more people talk about the 1981 Chargers than the 2006 Colts. NFL "fans" don't really remember much in the first place. Chalk it up to lazy out of context perspective. Which is why I usually don't talk about sports in public. Speaking of the Redskins (because it's oh so relevant), that team was pretty stacked and wasn't missing 10 + starters that they could easily replace with backups. So I'm not sure what your point is with that. Doug Williams came in for Jay Schorder who was an average starter at best and got hot for a few games. But they had Darrell Green, Dexter Manley, Mark May, Charles Mann, Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders, Art Monk, Jeff Bostic, Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, etc. Sure colleges have different resources. But see I could just say you're making excuses. Next man up right? Don't have the players? They're hurt? Doesn't matter next man up. Win or go home. Yeah the NFL is more of a fair shake, yet like I said there is a reason why certain players get huge contracts and others are getting the bare minimum veteran wage. And no one was putting a time stamp on facts, so I don't know where you were going with that. And facts aren't used to hide the truth. That's why they're called facts lol. I've pretty much said my piece. Obviously we're not going to agree. Personally I think the way you're looking at it is pretty skewed and reeks of ignorance. And you keep going off on these irrelevant tangents that have nothing to do with my main point, which was if you don't have the necessary players to compete in this league you aren't going anywhere. Saying "next man up" "win or go home" or "do or do not" isn't going to change that reality. But whatever. I'm done here. |
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Post by Action Ace on Oct 20, 2014 20:03:13 GMT -5
Sadly, the Bears are who I thought they were.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 21:10:39 GMT -5
I think mrp is just happy to see the 49ers get utterly beat down and embarrassed on SNF.  I am happy for Manning breaking Favre 's record though, and when I heard a rookie was replacing Willis I knew we were in trouble. With all of the injuries and turmoil with the 49ers this season it's going to be tough getting back to the playoffs. Who called AZ in leading the NFC West? Wow. For me it's all about the Giants in the WS right now, can't wait to watch it! |
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 20, 2014 21:24:05 GMT -5
By the way the receivers might actually want to work on, oh I don't know, catching the ball. Especially Vernon Davis. Send them an e-mail or something! Before it's too late! |
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Oct 20, 2014 22:52:46 GMT -5
I think mrp is just happy to see the 49ers get utterly beat down and embarrassed on SNF. I am happy for Manning breaking Favre 's record though, and when I heard a rookie was replacing Willis I knew we were in trouble. With all of the injuries and turmoil with the 49ers this season it's going to be tough getting back to the playoffs. Who called AZ in leading the NFC West? Wow. For me it's all about the Giants in the WS right now, can't wait to watch it! The turmoil narrative has been really funny with the 49ers. Especially since it's essentially all been hearsay until proven otherwise. Giants in the World Series is going to be great. Hopefully they secure the dynasty. |
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Oct 20, 2014 22:54:51 GMT -5
By the way the receivers might actually want to work on, oh I don't know, catching the ball. Especially Vernon Davis. Send them an e-mail or something! Before it's too late! You have their addresses? |
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Oct 22, 2014 0:24:18 GMT -5
One down, three to go for the Giants. Didn't think James Shields would play that bad.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 11:47:08 GMT -5
One down, three to go for the Giants. Didn't think James Shields would play that bad. MadBum was dominate last night. The way he got out of that inning with bases loaded and no outs was just amaze-balls. What a performance, and the bats are getting hot at the right time. I like the way the Giants are seeing the ball right now. Going to be a battle out in Kansas City tonight. Can't wait! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 23:29:22 GMT -5
And the Royals even things up with a 7-2 romp over the Giants. Will be interesting to see how the rest of the series plays out.
-M
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