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Post by batlaw on Jan 10, 2016 23:29:25 GMT -5
X-Men: The X-Cutioner's Song Uncanny X-Men #294-297 X-Factor #84-86 X-Men (vol. 2) #14-16 X-Force #16-18 writers: Scott Lobdell (Uncanny X-Men), Peter David (X-Factor), Fabian Nicieza (X-Men and X-Force) pencilers: Brandon Peterson (Uncanny X-Men), Jae Lee (X-Factor), Andy Kubert (X-Men), Greg Capullo (X-Force) editor: Bob Harras Overview:Perhaps the best remembered of the mega inter-title X-Men crossovers in that it was both the largest at the time (12 chapters and an epilogue across four monthly titles) and produced at the height of the X-Men's popularity in 1992. And, unlike many of those other crossovers that came before and after, this one holds up remarkably well two decades later. The plot, itself, is largely nonsensical and heavily borrowed from Fabian Nicieza's Kings of Pain crossover in the X Annuals a year earlier (the teams likened to pawns in some mysterious mastermind's game of chess, trotting the globe to solve a mystery, running into each other and first battling it out over a series of misunderstandings, but ultimately working together to learn that the real threat at the heart of the mystery is an unloved child throwing a super-powered tantrum. Yup, been there). And yet, it's not the plot that matters most in this crossover. Rather, it's the break-neck pacing, non-stop action and, most importantly, the human drama and interpersonal conflicts playing out through and between the scenes that really makes this one memorable. Whether Stryfe getting his first reunion with Scott Summers and Jean Grey, Cable, Bishop, and Wolverine male-bonding aboard Greymalkin, Archangel finally resolving his conflict with Apocalypse, or Jubilee teaching Professor X to roller blade, this storyline never forgets that characterization and human drama are the strong points of the X franchise. From a personal standpoint, I only collected comics as an adolescent between the years of 1989 and 1994, getting out pretty much when everyone else did once the comic book industry had turned into an over-saturated speculators' market with no substance in sight. It was only when I was twenty two years old and home from college that I pulled out my old comic books, decided to re-read this storyline on a lark, and instantly became an adult comic book fan for life. Today, as I pulled these issues out once more, I worried that I wouldn't love this story as much upon re-reading it again nineteen years later and with a lot more maturity and familiarity with great comics on my side. While I can't say I loved the storyline in the way that I did the first time, I most definitely still enjoyed it, and that's more than I expected. Worth Noting: Since the franchise's resurrection in the mid-1970s, the X-titles have always been riddled with references to past continuity, and the X-Cutioner's Song is no exception. There's A LOT of backstory referenced across these thirteen chapters. If you've read little or no X stories prior to this, X-Factor #68, at minimum, is required reading for understanding all that happens here. Editor boxes and Wikipedia will likely guide you through the rest. Though a point of obvious confusion in hindsight, the X-character known as The X-Cutioner does not appear in this storyline. His first appearance is still a year away. In fact, the title of this crossover comes off as arbitrary at best. The X-factor chapters are, by far, the weakest of the series. Peter David clearly wants to continue to tell his own story, constantly bringing in B plots from his own title that have no bearing on the crossover, and his characters seem flat and unenthusiastic when dealing with the events of this one. Worse yet, Jae Lee's art is abysmally early 1990s, more concerned with having characters strike cool poses and creating artistic panels that make it impossible to understand who is saying or doing what, than actually moving the story forward. It's a continual and jarring disruption. Worthwhile to read?: Though I would argue the X-Men were a decade past their prime by this point, this mega crossover event encapsulates the best of what the X-franchises were in the early 1990s. This is a very good story, especially for a mega hyped crossover event, even in spite of its flaws. Grade the run as a whole: B+ This was the event that burned me out on the x-men and ended my reading of them. |
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Post by coke & comics on Jan 11, 2016 0:09:48 GMT -5
In fairness, as a general rule, any story that stretches across 3 or more titles with as many creative teams is probably terrible. I can think of no exceptions to this off the top of my head. I can't say it's great, but given it was 19 issues spread across like 6 or 7 titles, Operation: Galactic Storm wasn't a complete disaster. Mediocre, and flawed. But not terrible, I think. I think Operation: Galactic Storm is a perfect example of what I was saying. I'm a big fan of the Harras/Epting Avengers era, and I think Avengers #347, the conclusion of Operation: Galactic Storm is a great issue. And there are plenty of fine pieces to it. The Captain America issues, for example. But there are also plenty of mediocre-to-crappy pieces. And the pieces don't form a coherent whole. The pacing is all off, the story stretches and contorts in weird directions. Had a single writer sat down to tell that story across a single title, it would have been far shorter and far more coherently paced. Taken as a whole, it's just not a good story. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 11, 2016 17:30:19 GMT -5
X-Men: The X-Cutioner's SongUncanny X-Men #294-297 X-Factor #84-86 X-Men (vol. 2) #14-16 X-Force #16-18 writers: Scott Lobdell (Uncanny X-Men), Peter David (X-Factor), Fabian Nicieza (X-Men and X-Force) pencilers: Brandon Peterson (Uncanny X-Men), Jae Lee (X-Factor), Andy Kubert (X-Men), Greg Capullo (X-Force) editor: Bob Harras Overview:Perhaps the best remembered of the mega inter-title X-Men crossovers in that it was both the largest at the time (12 chapters and an epilogue across four monthly titles) and produced at the height of the X-Men's popularity in 1992. And, unlike many of those other crossovers that came before and after, this one holds up remarkably well two decades later. The plot, itself, is largely nonsensical and heavily borrowed from Fabian Nicieza's Kings of Pain crossover in the X Annuals a year earlier (the teams likened to pawns in some mysterious mastermind's game of chess, trotting the globe to solve a mystery, running into each other and first battling it out over a series of misunderstandings, but ultimately working together to learn that the real threat at the heart of the mystery is an unloved child throwing a super-powered tantrum. Yup, been there). And yet, it's not the plot that matters most in this crossover. Rather, it's the break-neck pacing, non-stop action and, most importantly, the human drama and interpersonal conflicts playing out through and between the scenes that really makes this one memorable. Whether Stryfe getting his first reunion with Scott Summers and Jean Grey, Cable, Bishop, and Wolverine male-bonding aboard Greymalkin, Archangel finally resolving his conflict with Apocalypse, or Jubilee teaching Professor X to roller blade, this storyline never forgets that characterization and human drama are the strong points of the X franchise. From a personal standpoint, I only collected comics as an adolescent between the years of 1989 and 1994, getting out pretty much when everyone else did once the comic book industry had turned into an over-saturated speculators' market with no substance in sight. It was only when I was twenty two years old and home from college that I pulled out my old comic books, decided to re-read this storyline on a lark, and instantly became an adult comic book fan for life. Today, as I pulled these issues out once more, I worried that I wouldn't love this story as much upon re-reading it again nineteen years later and with a lot more maturity and familiarity with great comics on my side. While I can't say I loved the storyline in the way that I did the first time, I most definitely still enjoyed it, and that's more than I expected. Worth Noting: Since the franchise's resurrection in the mid-1970s, the X-titles have always been riddled with references to past continuity, and the X-Cutioner's Song is no exception. There's A LOT of backstory referenced across these thirteen chapters. If you've read little or no X stories prior to this, X-Factor #68, at minimum, is required reading for understanding all that happens here. Editor boxes and Wikipedia will likely guide you through the rest. Though a point of obvious confusion in hindsight, the X-character known as The X-Cutioner does not appear in this storyline. His first appearance is still a year away. In fact, the title of this crossover comes off as arbitrary at best. The X-factor chapters are, by far, the weakest of the series. Peter David clearly wants to continue to tell his own story, constantly bringing in B plots from his own title that have no bearing on the crossover, and his characters seem flat and unenthusiastic when dealing with the events of this one. Worse yet, Jae Lee's art is abysmally early 1990s, more concerned with having characters strike cool poses and creating artistic panels that make it impossible to understand who is saying or doing what, than actually moving the story forward. It's a continual and jarring disruption. Worthwhile to read?: Though I would argue the X-Men were a decade past their prime by this point, this mega crossover event encapsulates the best of what the X-franchises were in the early 1990s. This is a very good story, especially for a mega hyped crossover event, even in spite of its flaws. Grade the run as a whole: B+ Dear lord, man. What are you on about. That's one of the worst superhero stories ever. It's like the X-Men version of the Crossing. B+? It's an overlong barely coherent nonsense story with questionable art and scripting everywhere you look. I have a nostalgic fondness for the era as a whole and there's a Nicieza story here or there around the time period I tend to enjoy (X-Men #33 for example is a guilty pleasure), but it's still a pretty bad era for X-Men, and that story is probably the worst of it. As a general rule, all crossovers for X-Men are terrible. I'm a big fan of the Claremont era from beginning to end, except that I can't defend most of the crossovers. Mutant Massacre was good. Fall of the Mutants was good, but mainly because it was barely a crossover. Most of the rest I find indefensible. Inferno, X-Tinction Agenda, X-Cutioners Song, Phalanx Covenant, Operation: Zero Tolerance, etc etc. My favorite is Fatal Attractions, but even that is really only because I like some particular moments, mostly in X-Men #25. As a whole, it's a bloody mess. X-Cutioners Song is even more of a mess. Well, don't hold back. How did you really feel about it? It's definitely not perfect. The plot is absolutely the weakest part, and Jae Lee's art makes me want to hurt someone every time I see it, but Lobdell and Nicieza do an excellent job with characterization and dialogue, as well as with further developing interpersonal plot points left hanging across the X franchises, and that proves to be the strength of the run for me, especially as there's a conscious effort to finally give sincere characterization to formerly flat, uni-dimensional characters introduced by Liefeld, Portacio, and the like. This is the first time I actually gave a damn about Cable, Stryfe, Bishop, and even Gambit. That's an impressive feat in and of itself. In so many respects, and especially in redeeming characters and in aligning and resolving old floating continuity (going as far back as to early X-Factor stuff), this storyline really was on a mission to do more than generate hype and sell polybags. It tried to fix the X franchises, and it made some significant headway in that respect, even if the ship was sinking either way. If you look for the negatives in this series, you'll find them. There were strong positives too. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 11, 2016 21:31:34 GMT -5
I read X-Cutioner's Song not that long ago.. it's certainly not as bad as the horror of the Crossing... that essentially destroyed a franchise that have really never recovered. I wouldn't call it good, but it wasn't THAT bad.
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Post by coke & comics on Jan 12, 2016 2:17:17 GMT -5
I read X-Cutioner's Song not that long ago.. it's certainly not as bad as the horror of the Crossing... that essentially destroyed a franchise that have really never recovered. I wouldn't call it good, but it wasn't THAT bad. I'll admit that was a bit harsh. |
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 12, 2016 16:20:05 GMT -5
I read X-Cutioner's Song not that long ago.. it's certainly not as bad as the horror of the Crossing... that essentially destroyed a franchise that have really never recovered. I wouldn't call it good, but it wasn't THAT bad. My two favorite runs of Avengers ever came AFTER The Crossing. The franchise seems to be doing well these days in the comics and elsewhere. |
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Post by impulse on Jan 12, 2016 17:00:06 GMT -5
There were two X-men runs that I really liked, The Morrison run and Astonishing X-men with Josh Weedon. They both were easy to jump on to with very nice artwork. While a bit of a tangent to the larger discussion, I can't pass up an opportunity to discuss this. I absolutely LOVED the Morrison run. I know it is highly controversial, but it's the run that got me back into comics after a long hiatus. Having mostly read 80s and 90s X books, I did what most teenagers did - stopped comics to pursue music and girls. It didn't hurt that the comics industry took its massive dump around this time and became a pile of crap, so I left. I got a bit nostalgic around college time (also seems to be a common thread) and poked my nose back in here and there, and Morrison's run is what did it. It was so new and fresh and exciting and DANGEROUS but at the same time, it felt to me like X-Men. I know a lot of folks hate it, but it was heavily inspired by/an homage to classic Claremont-era X-Men as well as some of the later stuff. It felt to me like it was modernized, pulled out of the old status-quo, and breathed new life into it. It was the first time I recall having that gripping, "OMG I CANT WAIT FOR THE NEXT ISSUE!" feeling. I thought he did a great job of making an X-Men story but also yanking it into the modern age. He didn't quite stick the landing, though, and the last arc or two weren't..great... but overall, I don't think Morrison gets enough credit for pulling the franchise out of the doldrums and making them modern, cool and exciting again. Having said all that, oh, the mess Marvel has made of the entire X-line since, starting with House of M and Decimation. I don't feel the X-line has ever recovered from that, but I digress. |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jan 12, 2016 17:28:02 GMT -5
My two favorite runs of Avengers ever came AFTER The Crossing. You're doing it wrong. |
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 12, 2016 17:41:19 GMT -5
My two favorite runs of Avengers ever came AFTER The Crossing. You're doing it wrong. In your case, I certainly hope so. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 12, 2016 19:23:39 GMT -5
I read X-Cutioner's Song not that long ago.. it's certainly not as bad as the horror of the Crossing... that essentially destroyed a franchise that have really never recovered. I wouldn't call it good, but it wasn't THAT bad. My two favorite runs of Avengers ever came AFTER The Crossing. The franchise seems to be doing well these days in the comics and elsewhere. Busiek's run salvaged things as best he could, but everything since has been medicore at best. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 12, 2016 19:52:06 GMT -5
I liked the most recent version of Mighty Avengers.
I had very little interest in Busiek's Run "It's like Avengers comics you've already read! Again!*" and liked the stuff that came after better; It was at least formally interesting and their was some thought about new ways to tell stories in Mainstream comics...
But, well, most of it just wasn't that good.
(I really think that Bendis is an amazing writer when he's on, and I'd put Scarlet up there with the best comics to come out of Marvel, ever. But his skill set (modern theater-as-in-PLAYS-influenced-character-pieces) doesn't exactly translate well to big 'ol superhero team books.)
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jan 12, 2016 20:12:57 GMT -5
Busiek's Avenger's was the last time I genuinely enjoyed Marvel Comics. Sure, it was in a way a love letter to his favorite Avenger's era, but it was also very well done. I've never been interested in experimental takes on mainstream characters. I think the proper way to "keep things fresh" is to maintain the core concept and expand out with new ideas on the periphery, as opposed to mangling established characterization and making silly aesthetic changes (black leather for all!).
I'm all for experimentation and new techniques with alternative and creator owned books, though; conversely, I expect this and get frustrated fairly quickly when they're done more like the mainstream comics I love. I'm so difficult.
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 12, 2016 21:07:15 GMT -5
My two favorite runs of Avengers ever came AFTER The Crossing. The franchise seems to be doing well these days in the comics and elsewhere. Busiek's run salvaged things as best he could, but everything since has been medicore at best. Busiek's Avengers would be one, Millar's Ultimates (1 & 2) would be the other. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 12, 2016 22:37:05 GMT -5
I like Bendis, I just didn't like his Avengers... he's only has one character personality he can write... it fits Tony Stark pretty well, but having everyone in the Avengers act like him didn't work for me. I also hated Wolverine (a known killer) being on the team, and that being an issue sometimes, when they felt like it, and other times not. The Ronin story sorta sucked. I definitely didn't like Civil War.
Ultimates was OK for it's different-ness, but Millar can be too abrasive and just downright depressing. I like his pretend Avengers in Jupiters Circle/Legacy better than Ultimates.
Mighty Avengers was good, but it was more like Heroes for Hire than Avengers.
I think Busiek had alot of new stuff to offer. I LOVED Justice and Firestar being Avengers, and their story. Wanda coming into her own, and her story with Simon and Vision. Yes, it was continuity heavy, but it was in a Roy Thomas good sorta way (IMO). Plus, he fixed the Crossing, so he gets about 1000 points for that.
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Post by dupersuper on Jan 12, 2016 23:11:52 GMT -5
My two favorite runs of Avengers ever came AFTER The Crossing. The franchise seems to be doing well these days in the comics and elsewhere. Busiek's run salvaged things as best he could, but everything since has been medicore at best. I loved Hickmans run and am enjoying Waids and plan on getting Wilsons in trade...and at least Bendis gave us back Wasp. |
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