shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 18, 2016 16:05:53 GMT -5
I've enjoyed your "What If?" thread, so I would look forward to whatever else you decided to contribute. The more the merrier! Seconded! |
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Post by sabongero on Feb 23, 2016 15:58:52 GMT -5
Feel free to add your own to the thread  I am actually reading an old run in one of the DC books and once I've finished reading them, I will put together some information to post here regarding that run. So far it is a hit and miss for me as I am reading through the issues. But that's what's great about it. It's a melting pot of the good and the bad. As long as there is no bad aftertaste after reading the run. |
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Post by sabongero on Feb 23, 2016 16:00:12 GMT -5
I've enjoyed your "What If?" thread, so I would look forward to whatever else you decided to contribute. The more the merrier! Seconded! Thanks guys I'm glad you you like it so far. I am really looking forward to completing the whole series this year, and make my way to the second volume. Thought I'd share that here in the forum as well. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 11, 2016 19:27:39 GMT -5
Black Panther in Jungle Action Jungle Action (1972) #5-24 Overview:T'Challa's first ongoing series, writer Don McGregor penned what he went on to claim was comicdom's first graphic novel. The beloved "Panther's Rage" storyline, running from issues #6 through 18, told a compelling drama set in T'Challa's African Kingdom of Wakanda, in which an all black cast took center stage in an American comic book for perhaps the first time, sweeping character arcs were developed, and deep themes regarding idealism vs. pragmatism, Globalization, and good leadership yielded compelling explorations. Best yet, McGregor found a way with words and introspection, characterizing his protagonists more as dreaming artists than heroes in a fantasy-like epic, constantly reflecting on the world and circumstances around them with keen thought-provoking observations that were rarely overdone and usually awe inspiring. The second storyline, "The Panther vs. The Klan" was bolder still, calling upon a new supporting cast of characters as T'Challa faced hatred and murder in the deep American South. Rich Buckler came alive on the art for this storyline, and McGregor's new characters grew every bit as endearing and brilliant as their predecessors. At first, the storyline took almost excessive pains to point out, at least once per issue, that the group T'Challa was fighting was not The Klu Klux Klan, but rather an imposter organization. However, as the storyline began to progress, McGregor targeted The KKK with increasing audacity to the point that the letter column for the final chapter even had a reader writing in to report covert KKK activity in his own town. The storyline and title were cut off abruptly and without warning (supposedly due to low sales) and then immediately replaced with a very different Black Panther ongoing series by Jack Kirby. Still, I consider the incomplete "Panther vs. The Klan" to be an even more powerful project than the better known storyline that preceded it. Worthwhile to read: An absolute must if you enjoy strong characterization, writing, pacing, and philosophizing in your comics even more than all-out action. Key Issues / Highlights:#6-18: "Panther's Rage". Arguably comicdom's first graphic novel. #19-22 and 24: "The Panther vs. The Klan". Incomplete but powerful project, especially #22, which captures the weight of the entire story line beautifully in a single nearly self-contained story. Worth re-reading?: I will be coming back to this one again and again. Worth noting:#5 and #23 are both reprints of earlier Black Panther stories in other titles. #5 is essentially a prototype for the characters and themes explored in "Panther's Rage" while #23 is a simple done in one story that still packs a powerful punch. Grade the run as a whole: A+
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Post by hondobrode on May 11, 2016 20:47:30 GMT -5
This review has been very helpful.
I've heard really good things about this run, but I've got to confess that McGregor was just slightly before my time, and what I know of him and his work has kept me away.
My understanding was that he could be overly wordy and verbose, but, you're review has convinced me I need to read this sometime.
Thx Shax
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 11, 2016 21:00:35 GMT -5
but I've got to confess that McGregor was just slightly before my time, and what I know of him and his work has kept me away. My understanding was that he could be overly wordy and verbose, but, you're review has convinced me I need to read this sometime. I generally don't like McGregor. When I initially tried to read this run roughly ten years back, the first two issues really turned me off. It took a bit for McGregor's style to win me over. And I still consider his run on Killraven to be one of the most painful things I've ever done a review thread on. But he hit something truly special with this run. I'm not convinced lightning struck again for him before or after. |
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Post by hondobrode on May 11, 2016 21:07:29 GMT -5
I think the first work of his I read back around '80 or '81 was Sabre.
It was largely forgettable.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 22:41:26 GMT -5
This wasn't the end of McGregor on Panther though-he revisited the character twice in the 80s and 90s...
There was Panther Quest by McGregor, the serial that ran in Marvel Comics Presents starting with issue 13 through #37 with art by Gene Colan and Tom Palmer-there were 25 installments including the double sized finale in 37. This was circa '87-88 I believe.
And then in 1991 there was the 4 issue prestige format mini called PAnther's Prey by McGregor with art by Dwayne Turner.
-M
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 12, 2016 2:13:34 GMT -5
This wasn't the end of McGregor on Panther though-he revisited the character twice in the 80s and 90s... There was Panther Quest by McGregor, the serial that ran in Marvel Comics Presents starting with issue 13 through #37 with art by Gene Colan and Tom Palmer-there were 25 installments including the double sized finale in 37. This was circa '87-88 I believe. And then in 1991 there was the 4 issue prestige format mini called PAnther's Prey by McGregor with art by Dwayne Turner. -M This is the first I've heard of these. Are they anywhere near as good? |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 3:34:05 GMT -5
This wasn't the end of McGregor on Panther though-he revisited the character twice in the 80s and 90s... There was Panther Quest by McGregor, the serial that ran in Marvel Comics Presents starting with issue 13 through #37 with art by Gene Colan and Tom Palmer-there were 25 installments including the double sized finale in 37. This was circa '87-88 I believe. And then in 1991 there was the 4 issue prestige format mini called PAnther's Prey by McGregor with art by Dwayne Turner. -M This is the first I've heard of these. Are they anywhere near as good? I liked the Panther Prey mini, read it when it came out, but I never bought MCP regularly, so I've only read bits and pieces of Panther Quest. McGregor was a writer who often tried to be relevant (it's part of why I struggled with the later parts of Sabre as it didn't age well) and some of the themes of the Jungle Action run were germane to the time it was written. The same is true of both Quest and Prey as well, as they feature threats and themes relevant to the time they were written-so it's a question of is there enough there that is timeless or do they age poorly. I haven't read either in a long time, so I can't answer that. -M |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 12, 2016 4:19:00 GMT -5
some of the themes of the Jungle Action run were germane to the time it was written. The same is true of both Quest and Prey as well, as they feature threats and themes relevant to the time they were written-so it's a question of is there enough there that is timeless or do they age poorly. I haven't read either in a long time, so I can't answer that. -M For the most part, I found the Jungle Action stories relatively timeless, reading them for the first time in 2016. Some of the slang is dated, but the themes and conflicts (both internal and external) T'Challa faces didn't belong to any specific era. Even the KKK remains a relevant concern today (though they wield less political influence). |
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Post by Rob Allen on May 12, 2016 13:45:03 GMT -5
The storyline and title were cut off abruptly and without warning (supposedly due to low sales) and then immediately replaced with a very different Black Panther ongoing series by Jack Kirby. I don't know about how the book was selling, but the story I heard at the time was that when Jack returned to Marvel, he wanted editorial control over a couple of characters that he co-created and still felt rather proprietary about - Captain America and Black Panther - along with free rein on a new series or two (Eternals, 2001). That's why both Cap and BP had such abrupt shifts. At the time I thought of them has having moved from the Marvel universe to the Kirby universe. Overall I agree that this series was one of the best comics being published in 1973-75. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 12, 2016 15:19:56 GMT -5
This is the first I've heard of these. Are they anywhere near as good? The same is true of both Quest and Prey as well, as they feature threats and themes relevant to the time they were written-so it's a question of is there enough there that is timeless or do they age poorly. I only read a few chapters but as I recall it addressed apartheid in South Africa and T'Challa's quest for his mother. I wish it had been included in the Black panther Essential. It would have made so much more sense than Kirby's run as a follow up to the Jungle Action issues. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 12, 2016 16:08:32 GMT -5
The storyline and title were cut off abruptly and without warning (supposedly due to low sales) and then immediately replaced with a very different Black Panther ongoing series by Jack Kirby. I don't know about how the book was selling, but the story I heard at the time was that when Jack returned to Marvel, he wanted editorial control over a couple of characters that he co-created and still felt rather proprietary about - Captain America and Black Panther - along with free rein on a new series or two (Eternals, 2001). That's why both Cap and BP had such abrupt shifts. At the time I thought of them has having moved from the Marvel universe to the Kirby universe. I'd always assumed the KKK storyline had ruffled too many feathers. I'd hate to have to blame Jack for this. |
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Post by shaxper on May 19, 2016 20:10:52 GMT -5
Black Panther, Volume 1 (1977-1979) Black Panther (1977) #1-15 Overview:Immediately following the abrupt cancellation of Black Panther's acclaimed but controversial run in Jungle Action, the character was given his own series now under the creative control of Jack Kirby, having recently returned to Marvel after his exodus to DC. Though he claimed in the letter column to want to bring Black Panther back to his original roots, what he clearly wanted to write was an entirely new series unbound by any past premises or continuities, Black Panther serving as a default protagonist who was in no way specifically Black Panther and could just as easily have been Kamandi or Mister Miracle. However, much of the readership adamantly disagreed with this approach, and the letter column became an ongoing war for the soul of the series, only ultimately silenced when the letters winked out for several issues (they blamed the printer) and then came back all positive and praising Kirby's direction. The oft-referenced letter that started it all is quite articulate in expressing the concerns over Kirby's new direction: Thus, though arguably at the height of his creative output at this time, Kirby's Black Panther becomes an awkward tension between his desire to create something amazing, new, and Kirby-esque, and his desire to placate the readership, offering something that neither came naturally to him nor appeared to excite him all that much. I feel the volume can be divided into three separate entities: BLACK PANTHER AND THE COLLECTORS (#1-7) is Jack's original concept for the series, which, though showing absolutely no acknowledgement of anything that had ever been previously done with the character (T'challa is even referred to as a "prince" several times), makes for some truly fun Kirby-style storytelling. It almost feels as if Kirby is trying to write a Carl Barks Uncle Scrooge adventure, with lighthearted banter and characterizations, ancient lore and artifacts, and jet-setting mysteries involving long lost places and peoples each issue. The visuals are breath-taking, and the action is addictive, especially in the second and third issues. BLACK PANTHER IN WAKANDA (#7-13) attempts to placate the readership by acknowledging T'Challa's role as a king and returning to Wakanda to tell stories there. However, Kirby once again ignores all past characters and continuity in order to create his own version of Wakanda that just doesn't jibe with any previous continuity, especially when he attempts to explain that Wakanda is really just a Black Panther Cult dedicated to defending the world from a sort of zombie plague that the Vibranium Mound has the ability to create. And uh, also the Vibranium Mound came from space. I wonder if Kirby envisioned developing a sort of self-contained Fourth World at Marvel in which Black Panther would be linked to The Eternals via the mound's origins. He certainly wasn't interested in connecting the title to the rest of the Marvel Universe, including The Avengers. Anyway, these stories lack the pizzazz of the previous ones. Even Kirby's visuals seem more rushed and less inspired. It's still '70s Kirby, and so it can't help but be fun and addictive, but it's also a significant step downward, as well as a compromise that I suspect ended up pleasing no one. Oh, and T'Challa gains ESP. Just saying. The final issue of this portion of the run is rescued by Jim Shooter, Ed Hannigan, and Jerry Bingham after Jack's abrupt departure from the title, and (sadly) their rush job is far more exciting and compelling than any of the Kirby issues that came before it. Even Shooter's surprise twist reveal is more intriguing than the one Kirby almost certainly had planned (involving the true nature of Kiber). BLACK PANTHER AS AMBASSADOR (#14-15) features a new direction for the series once more, as Ed Hannigan and Jerry Bingham attempt to resurrect some of the characters and characterization from McGregor's run even while taking a far less daring/controversial approach to the series as T'Challa attempts to enter the world of Global politics and economics, setting up a bureau in New York. Rather than spend much time on this fascinating concept, it becomes a backdrop as T'Challa takes on traditional superhero fare, aided far too often by The Avengers in the course of only two issues. This storyline continues into Marvel Premiere #51-53, but I just didn't care enough to follow it there. Worthwhile to read: Even in spite of its problems, the first thirteen issues were fun and addictive. If you can get past this not being McGregor, you're likely to have fun. Having Kirby take over an existing series was a poor choice, but it's still '70s Kirby. Key Issues / Highlights:#1-3: "King Solomon's Frog" is slow to start but ultimately a stellar example of Kirby's limitless imagination. #7-10: The Jakarra saga barely features T'Challa at all, and I'll be darned if I can explain why I found it impossible to put down, but I did. Nowhere near Kirby at his best, but it was addictive and fun all the same. #11-13: The Kiber saga starts off well enough, but what I really enjoyed was Shooter/Hannigan/Bingham's resolution to the story arc. They did an excellent job of merging McGregor's characterization with Kirby's high-minded concepts. Worth re-reading?: If you're looking for Kirby, absolutely. If you're looking for McGregor, maybe not so much. Worth noting:The Hannigan/Bingham stories continue into Marvel Premiere #51-53 Kirby is surprisingly misogynistic and also aggressive towards short people at numerous times in this run (  ). Grade the run as a whole: B+
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