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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 23:21:46 GMT -5
Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 15, 2015 23:21:46 GMT -5
This  Looks like a swipe from this-  I think this one falls under homage, since Doom isn't at all drawn the same in the two shots and the situation seems very similar (Doom steals great cosmic power). |
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 2:16:39 GMT -5
Post by tolworthy on Mar 16, 2015 2:16:39 GMT -5
This might be a good time to plug one of my favourite blogs, panelocity, which is devoted to swipes. Here's a montage of typical pics from Panelocy, all from a single issue of the FF:  These were swiped from Panelocity, with permission. Yeah, I know I got some of the pictures the wrong way round  In answer to the OP, I have no problems with swipes IF the artist can draw. If the artist has shown he/she can draw, then I trust them that the swipe is there because it's the right image. If it saves them time, great. But if the artist cannot draw, then it'snot good enough to copy someone who can. I want to know that the picture is the right one for the story. What I really don't like is copying from photos. Use them, sure, but CHANGE THEM! If you can't change them then you're not an artist IMO. To see what I mean, here is Crystal by Kirby. Kirby really captured what it is to have power. Crystal is a princess, from a more advanced race with stronger bodies; she's smart, beautiful, and can control the elements! Kirby gets her just right: she exudes power and confidence and a slightly alien nature: _1.jpg) But here is a picture that's just like a photo. It's just an ordinary person!  This is not Crystal! In my opinion |
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 5:29:38 GMT -5
Post by Paradox on Mar 16, 2015 5:29:38 GMT -5
This Looks like a swipe from this- I won't go so far as to call a vaguely similar pose a "swipe". If you've changed an angle somewhere, as far as I'm concerned, it's not a swipe. "Inspired by" perhaps. |
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 9:52:36 GMT -5
Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 16, 2015 9:52:36 GMT -5
After a good nights sleep, I now recall, according to that long ago article I read (probably in the Comics Journal), that another artist heavily reliant on swipes in the early 1970s was Rich Buckler. Again many,many instances were provided.
Buckler and Adkins both are fine artists and capable of turning out good product. But constantly using other people's art-and I mean constantly- is theft without the proper acknowledgement. A writer plagerizing someone else's work but changing a few words or names for large portions of a piece would not get a free pass from the public. Why should an artist?
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 10:36:08 GMT -5
Post by MDG on Mar 16, 2015 10:36:08 GMT -5
I actually see the same poses during flashbacks as a positive, as it reinforces continuity on a micro level. Why bother redrawing the panels then-why not just reprint the panels in question, save the artist time and effort to spend on new material and save money not having to pay to have the same artwork done again, save time and gain deadline breathing room and "reinforce the continuity" of the previous told stories by just reusing the art from the story being flash-backed to. Otherwise a swipe is bad except when it's good is kind of a logical conundrum. The artist should come up with his own stuff except when he shouldn't? -M There was a Green Lantern story drawn by Joe Staton that relied a lot on past history and referenced a lot of past events (written by Englehart, obviously). The original plan was to copy original panels, but when they were laying out the story, it became impractical because the original panels were usually the wrong size/aspect ratio to fit into the new page as needed. Staton ended up re-drawing them. (they explained all this in a letters page) (of course, swiping goes way back--people have traced Bob Kane's art on the first Batman story to swipes from pulp and BLB illustrations. And Shelly Moldoff's Hawkman is full of Alex Raymond figures.) |
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 12:46:51 GMT -5
Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 16, 2015 12:46:51 GMT -5
Adkins learned how to swipe from Wally Wood. Woody had enormous files of clippings to swipe from. Adkins worked for Woody for a number of years. I tend to look at Wally Wood as "excused" here, because poses and panel composition were a very small part of his total package (IE his drawings were just unearthly beautiful.) Still, he's probably the only guy I can think of on the list of the top fifty most important mainstream American comics artists who used a bunch of swipes. Buckler and Brunner, ferinstance, were really big deals in their day, but their reputation hasn't really been maintained, and now they're both fairly minor footnotes. Using a lot of swipes might keep you off the "Greatest of All Time" list, unless you're Wally Wood? |
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dale
Junior Member
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 12:59:04 GMT -5
Post by dale on Mar 16, 2015 12:59:04 GMT -5
There's obviously an important distinction to be made between "swiped" and "inspired by". None of the examples shown above are what I would consider swipes. (Except the Adkins piece, of course!) A swipe has to be a line-for-line exact and deliberate copy, passed off as an original piece, surely. I remember when Rich Buckler first started working at Marvel. There were many instances of swipes in his early work, as I recall. I always suspected he was hired because he could do a reasonable imitation of the Kirby "style". Later, he developed his own style and did really good work.
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Post by Rob Allen on Mar 16, 2015 13:58:24 GMT -5
The artist most famous for copying others' work without attribution has to be Roy Lichtenstein. What he did goes beyond swiping to plagiarism, IMHO.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 16, 2015 14:05:30 GMT -5
Dixit Wally Wood:
"Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up."
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 14:35:45 GMT -5
Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 16, 2015 14:35:45 GMT -5
There's obviously an important distinction to be made between "swiped" and "inspired by". None of the examples shown above are what I would consider swipes. (Except the Adkins piece, of course!) A swipe has to be a line-for-line exact and deliberate copy, passed off as an original piece, surely. I remember when Rich Buckler first started working at Marvel. There were many instances of swipes in his early work, as I recall. I always suspected he was hired because he could do a reasonable imitation of the Kirby "style". Later, he developed his own style and did really good work. Almost-swipes feel worse to me. "It's not a swipe because I moved the guy's leg ten degrees." If you're gonna steal, fine, steal but own up to it. Supposedly Dan Adkins and Wally Wood were both always open and honest about swiping, which makes me respect 'em more . |
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 15:08:26 GMT -5
Post by badwolf on Mar 16, 2015 15:08:26 GMT -5
If I ever noticed a swipe, I would probably think of it as an homage. Or maybe just an in-joke for faithful readers to notice. If it is just an occasional, or one-time thing, and they are mostly doing their own work. it doesn't bother me.
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 17:41:37 GMT -5
Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 16, 2015 17:41:37 GMT -5
The artist most famous for copying others' work without attribution has to be Roy Lichtenstein. What he did goes beyond swiping to plagiarism, IMHO. Ooh. But he's completely changing the context that the art was presented in, and I think that has real value as a thought experiment. Plus he's freely acknowledging he did swipes.) If nothing else it gave Russ Heath and others some nice free publicity. And Russ (at least) doesn't seem TOO mad about it. |
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 17:52:28 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 17:52:28 GMT -5
There's obviously an important distinction to be made between "swiped" and "inspired by". None of the examples shown above are what I would consider swipes. (Except the Adkins piece, of course!) A swipe has to be a line-for-line exact and deliberate copy, passed off as an original piece, surely. I remember when Rich Buckler first started working at Marvel. There were many instances of swipes in his early work, as I recall. I always suspected he was hired because he could do a reasonable imitation of the Kirby "style". Later, he developed his own style and did really good work. I don't think it needs to be line for line. Some of these pieces were most likely lightboxed, even if the costume was changed. You could trace that Dr. Doom image and without too much effort turn him into Magneto and put it on the cover of X-Men, it would definitely be a swipe though. |
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 18:53:22 GMT -5
Post by Rob Allen on Mar 16, 2015 18:53:22 GMT -5
The artist most famous for copying others' work without attribution has to be Roy Lichtenstein. What he did goes beyond swiping to plagiarism, IMHO. Ooh. But he's completely changing the context that the art was presented in, and I think that has real value as a thought experiment. Plus he's freely acknowledging he did swipes.) If nothing else it gave Russ Heath and others some nice free publicity. And Russ (at least) doesn't seem TOO mad about it. I've never heard that Lichtenstein acknowledged the original artists in any way. People have done decades worth of detective work to track down the original images that Roy copied, precisely because Lichtenstein wasn't admitting that he'd copied anything. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,201
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Swipes
Mar 16, 2015 22:14:51 GMT -5
Post by Confessor on Mar 16, 2015 22:14:51 GMT -5
I'm pretty ambivalent about swipes really and, chances are, I wouldn't spot them anyway. But in answer to Reptisaurus' other point, yeah, I like the Dan Adkins' artwork in those '69/'70 era issues of Doctor Strange too. Pity that the stories aren't always the strongest though. As for Frank Brunner's Dr. Strange stuff, I'm not overly familiar with it because I haven't got round to picking up volume 5 of the Dr. Strange Marvel Masterworks yet. |
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