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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 16:50:01 GMT -5
Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 15, 2015 16:50:01 GMT -5
So I'm reading late '60s and early '70s Doctor Strange and... man, I really like both Dan Adkins and Frank Brunner.
But I hear they were both really reliant on swipes from other artists.
So, you guys: Does this matter?
A) Is integrating another artists poses into your own work a skill in-and-of-itself?
B) Does constant or even occasional swiping affect your estimation of an artists overall output?
C) How often do you notice swipes? Honestly, it's not something that even occurs to me. I'm way more focused on page design and storytelling choices than individual poses - although I guess that page designs could be swiped as easily as individual panels.
D) COME ON, Adkins and Brunner's stuff looks really, really good! Admit it! (Although not as good as the Colan or Ditko stuff, but they were all-time great artists doing some of the best work of their career.) And isn't looking really, really good the most important thing?
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 17:17:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 17:17:57 GMT -5
E) is it a swipe if an artist uses a pose from a magazine or photograph rather than another artist's comic work?
F) what about using a piece of fine art for a pose?
G) if you use a model and they pose and you take that pose is it a swipe?
Artists emulate and are inspired by images they find everywhere...real life, other art, their imagination, etc. etc. etc. Are some forms of inspiration then acceptable and others not? That is the heart of the question-does being inspired/influenced by someone else's work cross the line into theft (the real meaning of the euphemism swipe)?
-M
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 17:56:42 GMT -5
Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 15, 2015 17:56:42 GMT -5
I recall reading an in-depth article years ago about the extent of Dan Adkins swiping other artists. An example amongst many was this page from De Strange # 169. The original operation scene illustration came from an EC comic called MD. It was an exact swipe-no doubt about it. About a dozen other examples were printed Dan Adkins is an excellant artist in his own right. But the hardest thing when you're up against a deadline (and he was certainly no speed demon to put it mildly) is to look at a blank piece of paper and stage the scene. The actual rendering for some artists can be the easy part. Also, Dan Adkins was an apprentice to Wally Wood who was known to keep an enormous swipe file- swiping from his own previously published work. Adkins sheepishly admitted to these practices in the fan press when interviewed and vowed to curtail it. However he was never able to be prolific without resorting to it
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 19:03:23 GMT -5
Post by Paste Pot Paul on Mar 15, 2015 19:03:23 GMT -5
I always look at it as they are commercial artists, not fine artists as much as we would like to think it. Do the job, by whatever means, to fulfill your contract. Simple. I see no difference to using photo reference to get perspective, ratio, and pose right. What you need to get the job done.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 15, 2015 19:32:42 GMT -5
Big difference between just using reference and outright swiping. Alex Ross works from photos but he takes the photos himself so thats not swiping. Greg Land blatantly traces porn and magazines. Thats swiping. And I don't think theres any excuse for swiping from another comic artist except as homage, in which case it needs to be very clear that it is homage.
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 19:39:57 GMT -5
Post by Icctrombone on Mar 15, 2015 19:39:57 GMT -5
There are some scenes that are always going to be "referenced/swiped". I think of all the times I saw the same poses and drawings when the FF origin is recounted, and I don't get upset. It's a classic sequence.
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 19:42:28 GMT -5
Post by Icctrombone on Mar 15, 2015 19:42:28 GMT -5
I must have seen this event swiped a dozen times.
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 20:38:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 20:38:37 GMT -5
As a reader, I'm likely to not even notice heavy swiping.
But I think it's lazy and cheap and if I did find out I wouldn't read that book. Or likely anything from that publisher.
I also think there's a difference between a swipe and a homage. An Action 1 inspired cover is a homage. An obscure panel from Sgt Fury being used in a new Deadpool comic is a swipe. One is meant to draw attention to the classic source material, one is meant to hide it.
And I think swipes for the most part are only found in mainstream monthlies. Probably a byproduct of the strict monthly schedule. Maybe even encouraged by staff. Either way, I don't like it.
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 21:14:19 GMT -5
Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 15, 2015 21:14:19 GMT -5
There are some scenes that are always going to be "referenced/swiped". I think of all the times I saw the same poses and drawings when the FF origin is recounted, and I don't get upset. It's a classic sequence. I actually see the same poses during flashbacks as a positive, as it reinforces continuity on a micro level.
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 21:23:07 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 21:23:07 GMT -5
There are some scenes that are always going to be "referenced/swiped". I think of all the times I saw the same poses and drawings when the FF origin is recounted, and I don't get upset. It's a classic sequence. I actually see the same poses during flashbacks as a positive, as it reinforces continuity on a micro level. Why bother redrawing the panels then-why not just reprint the panels in question, save the artist time and effort to spend on new material and save money not having to pay to have the same artwork done again, save time and gain deadline breathing room and "reinforce the continuity" of the previous told stories by just reusing the art from the story being flash-backed to. Otherwise a swipe is bad except when it's good is kind of a logical conundrum. The artist should come up with his own stuff except when he shouldn't? -M
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 21:49:10 GMT -5
Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 15, 2015 21:49:10 GMT -5
Why bother redrawing the panels then-why not just reprint the panels in question, save the artist time and effort to spend on new material and save money not having to pay to have the same artwork done again, save time and gain deadline breathing room and "reinforce the continuity" of the previous told stories by just reusing the art from the story being flash-backed to. I think that would be awesome.
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 21:50:35 GMT -5
Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 15, 2015 21:50:35 GMT -5
Adkins learned how to swipe from Wally Wood. Woody had enormous files of clippings to swipe from. Adkins worked for Woody for a number of years.
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 21:54:15 GMT -5
Post by berkley on Mar 15, 2015 21:54:15 GMT -5
I image searched the EC comic Ish mentioned: Certainly he swiped the main figures and composition of the surgery scene, the shadows and lighting, etc. I like the way he used it though, juxtaposing it as background to Strange's head in the adjoining panel, bringing out its nature as a mental flashback. So for me, yeah, I suppose I'd be even more impressed if that panel wasn't a swipe, but it was used intelligently and within a new context, so the overall effect is more important to me. Also, the original cover is a well-done, quietly dramatic picture of a somewhat generic - in the sense of representative - surgical scene, not a strikingly new re-imagining of such a scene. The kind of swipes I dislike is where someone takes another artist's cool, original idea and tries to pass it off as his own. Here, I'd say that Adkins took a very good surgical scene - nice use of lighting - but almost any such scene would have worked almost as well for his purposes.
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Swipes
Mar 15, 2015 21:59:16 GMT -5
Post by berkley on Mar 15, 2015 21:59:16 GMT -5
I must have seen this event swiped a dozen times. Now if this panel were swiped I'd probably be more critical, because this for me is a more striking and original rendering of another, different sort of generic (to superhero comics) image, the flying hero struck down by an antagonist's "rays of power" or whatever you'd call them. You wouldn't see this angle used that often for the victim, or the action-pose of the two background characters, etc.
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 15, 2015 22:35:21 GMT -5
This Looks like a swipe from this-
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