|
|
Post by tolworthy on Jan 17, 2015 4:28:05 GMT -5
I've never been much of a fan of evil alternate/mirror universe versions of heroic characters. Blasphemy!  Bizarro. The CSA. Love that stuff. Oddly, can't think of any Marvel examples off the top of my head (Squadron Supreme/Sinister maybe). Doppelgangers were a recurring trope in the FF. Off the top of my head (I am sure there are more): issue 2: the Skrulls impersonate the team issue 8: Alicia impersonates Sue issue 10: Doom swaps bodies with Reed issue 17 (I think) Johnny creates flame doubles of himself (he did this a lot in Strange Tales) issue 51, "this man this monster" - a man impersonated the Thing the second Galactus story: the big G creates versions of the FF to keep them busy when Ben is kidnapped its a skrull impersonating Reed FF 118 and 162 feature a parallel reality version of the team 119 (or thereabouts) has thousands of copies of Reed 177-180 (the Brute) has counter Earth's Reed posing as our Reed 203 has an evil version of the FF FF 246 introduced the new style Doombots, taking doppelgangering to a whole new level (is it Doom or is a Doombot?) 226 introduces the clone team, who take over from the FF, and so on and so on. You can barely go ten issues of the FF in te early days without bumping into a doppelganger or four.. |
|
|
|
Post by Paradox on Jan 17, 2015 5:02:55 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of the idea that Doom floated away into space and died after taking the Baxter Building into space (the first time) and since then it's ALL been Doombots!  |
|
|
|
Post by crazyoldhermit on Jan 17, 2015 5:07:57 GMT -5
The more they "explained" things about Wolvie (especially about his past) the more he sucked. Vague and mysterious worked a lot better. "You speak Japanese?"
"Yeah."
"Why didn't you ever tell us?"
"You didn't ask."
See, perfect. I don't get why they took a character whose defining attribute is his mysteriousness and got rid of that element completely (then again, this is the same industry that took murderous outlaw Batman and turned him into a cop, and took a radical leftist and turned him into the symbol of authority). Ben Thompson (Badass of the Week) says it better than I could: |
|
|
|
Post by Nowhere Man on Jan 17, 2015 7:23:17 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more about Wolverine. I'll never understand why Quesada and the other guys at Marvel thought taking away one of the defining characteristics that made the character iconic was a good idea. Did they really do it all simply to generate buzz by causing fans to go irate? How many heroes have a mysterious origin? Not many that I can think of. Horrible idea that I'll never get behind. For me, Barry Widsor Smith's Weapon X is the only Wolverine "origin" that we needed or will need. Origins, in my personal canon, simply doesn't exist.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dizzy D on Jan 17, 2015 7:48:30 GMT -5
I was never that into mysterious past heroes and villains. My handrule is that you get 3 years out of story out of teasing a character's past, then you should start putting in some answers. (Worse example: Rogue, whose real name is still unknown 30 years later for no reason whatsoever). There are some exceptions, of course. The Joker who works fine with the multiple origins. By now the pre-Weapon X parts of Deadpool's life also fall into that category because we have seen so many contradictory stories. And then there are the cosmic entities and Lovecraftian horrors that don't need an origin.)
The problem with Origin for me was not so much that it ruined the mystery behind Wolverine, but that it was just a bad story. (I was fine with the Mowgli-type origin they had years before that.).
|
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 17, 2015 8:10:56 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of the idea that Doom floated away into space and died after taking the Baxter Building into space (the first time) and since then it's ALL been Doombots! There was Sue as Malice, too, which is probably best forgotten, but that Tolworthy reminded me of with his list. |
|
|
|
Post by The Cheat on Jan 17, 2015 17:23:12 GMT -5
Blasphemy! Bizarro. The CSA. Love that stuff. Oddly, can't think of any Marvel examples off the top of my head (Squadron Supreme/Sinister maybe). Marvel's evil alternates (Venom, Crimson Dynamo, Batroc come to mind) all live in the regular universe, I'd say. Ah. I thought we were going for actual doppelgängers, not just similar power sets. |
|
|
|
Post by The Cheat on Jan 17, 2015 17:24:54 GMT -5
issue 8: Alicia impersonates Sue Ah yes, the old 'Alicia looks exactly like Sue' plot point. Which was conveniently forgotten later on when Johnny fell in love with her  |
|
|
|
Post by starscape on Jan 17, 2015 17:34:40 GMT -5
I don't see Batroc being particularly similar to anyone. No more than Daredevil is to the Spirit anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 17, 2015 17:48:40 GMT -5
Marvel's evil alternates (Venom, Crimson Dynamo, Batroc come to mind) all live in the regular universe, I'd say. Ah. I thought we were going for actual doppelgängers, not just similar power sets. It's more than similar, it's pretty clearly just 'evil ______' , but I see what you mean, Venom is not actually an evil version of Peter Parker...he a different character that acts just like an evil version of Peter Parker. I've always thought of Batroc as French Captain America... I know he's a mercenary and all, but he's still very proud of his country, he operates as a hand to hand fighter of super human skill, and has a crazy gimmick (using mostly his feet and his acrobatics, like Cap has his Shield) that single him out. It's not a perfect analogy, certainly, but the spirit is there, IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by crazyoldhermit on Jan 17, 2015 20:26:33 GMT -5
I was never that into mysterious past heroes and villains. My handrule is that you get 3 years out of story out of teasing a character's past, then you should start putting in some answers. I think Weapon X served that role more than adequately. The question should only be answered if the answer is more interesting than the question. The details of Weapon X were foggy for almost 20 years, so the Weapon X story was a long awaited answer. But the story of his childhood and beyond, that was something nobody needed to know and the answer accomplished nothing. It's more than similar, it's pretty clearly just 'evil ______' , but I see what you mean, Venom is not actually an evil version of Peter Parker...he a different character that acts just like an evil version of Peter Parker. You sure about that? I don't think both men working in journalism was an accident. Anyways, count me amongst those who love villainous foils. Venom, Sabretooth, Bane, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by chadwilliam on Feb 1, 2015 22:48:50 GMT -5
Those little "Story Continues On Second Page Following" instructions at the bottom of any page preceding an ad. Why not have giant "Hold Comic This Way Up to Read" captions or "Do Not Eat Comic" boxes everywhere while you're at it?
Oh, and Krypton had Atomic Clocks on certain streets indicating the number of years left until it's estimated destruction. This was always measured in the billions and was presented as one of those things people would point at whenever they wanted to mock Jor-El's findings that Krypton's destruction was imminent. What is the point of a clock whose hands change only once every billion years? |
|
|
|
Post by coke & comics on Feb 2, 2015 2:15:39 GMT -5
issue 8: Alicia impersonates Sue Ah yes, the old 'Alicia looks exactly like Sue' plot point. Which was conveniently forgotten later on when Johnny fell in love with her :D Was it forgotten? Or was Johnny fulfilling some Targaryenesque fantasies? |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 2:20:06 GMT -5
Ah yes, the old 'Alicia looks exactly like Sue' plot point. Which was conveniently forgotten later on when Johnny fell in love with her Was it forgotten? Or was Johnny fulfilling some Targaryenesque fantasies? Is C&C really Mark Millar? Whodathunk! Wasn't that one of the controversial bits of Millar's MK version of FF, or was that another writer? I confuse the things I avoid like the plague at times....  -M |
|
|
|
Post by DE Sinclair on Feb 2, 2015 10:41:27 GMT -5
Those little "Story Continues On Second Page Following" instructions at the bottom of any page preceding an ad. Why not have giant "Hold Comic This Way Up to Read" captions or "Do Not Eat Comic" boxes everywhere while you're at it?
Oh, and Krypton had Atomic Clocks on certain streets indicating the number of years left until it's estimated destruction. This was always measured in the billions and was presented as one of those things people would point at whenever they wanted to mock Jor-El's findings that Krypton's destruction was imminent. What is the point of a clock whose hands change only once every billion years? If the clock broke, how long would it take before someone noticed? "You know, I think it's been stuck because it hasn't moved for 3 billion years". |
|
