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Post by The Captain on Jan 23, 2024 18:17:18 GMT -5
Did Zarrko stay around as a Marvel character or did they more or less forget about him after Kang was introduced? Zarrko also showed up in a few issues of Darkhawk in the 90s, manipulating DH and some of the New Warriors in more time-traveling hijinks.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 24, 2024 6:34:08 GMT -5
I wanted to call this thread "When Titans Crash!" icctrombone seems to have had his fill of early Thor for the moment, so I offered to write the next one. I kind of like this one. It's a step in the right direction. Journey into Mystery #86November 1962 "On the Trail of the Tomorrow Man!" Commentary: That wasn't so bad. It has a sci-fi set-up like a lot of the stories you would see in Journey into Mystery and Tales of Suspense and the other mystery anthology comics. And then you put a super-hero in it! And it has lovely Kirby/Ayers art. What strikes me is how Zarrko's origin is a lot like Kang's origin. (Also they have the same color scheme). Or maybe I should say that Zarrko's origin is like Rama-Tut's origin before he became Kang. This must be a very common problem in the various future timelines of Marvel-Earth. They should start warning the people of the future that they may not be able to enjoy their peace and contentment forever if they don't keep an eye on sociopathic scientists who don't know any other way to deal with their boredom than to go back in time and conquer the past or steal cobalt bombs and turidium rays. Or maybe Zarrko is another incarnation of Rama-Tut/Kang/Immortus and ... what was the other one? Marco Xavier! (Or something.) Until they figure out this whole Zarrko thing, the Marvel Universe is in grave danger of a cosmic cross-over crisis event with a name like the Zarrko Zenith. All the multiverses may be at risk! Icctrombone comments for JIM # 86-Thor seems to be at the disposal of the US military. They have him testing weapons for them , and his final test is to see if he " survives" the explosion. What is he doesn't survive? To pursue Zarrko, Thor calls on Odin who he now knows is his father. Odin mentions that he should know that he can time travel with his hammer. So are we establishing that Thors memories should be asserting itself to the Don Blake persona? Thor loses his hammer when he is battling Zarrkos robots and even in the future, he has the 60 second time limit before transformation. Zarrko is defeated and loses his memory even as he survives a plane crash. Maybe we should count how many times a villain loses his memory at the end of the story In the Silver Age. Unlike his counterpart Kang, Zarrko only wants to rule his present time. in his upcoming appearances , we will see if he expands his goals. The first Face to face meeting between Thor and Odin.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 24, 2024 20:56:51 GMT -5
The only way we're ever going to get to the good stuff is by biting the bullet and writing these reviews. This is NOT how I wanted to spend my vacation. Journey into Mystery #87December 1962 "Prisoner of the Reds!" Commies! Commies! Commies! Commies! Commies! Commies! COMMIES!! Prominent scientists are defecting to THE COMMIES! The scientists leave notes saying that they now hate America and have decided to join the Reds! Don Blake hears about it and visits his old friend Colonel Harrison in Army Intelligence. (Which makes me laugh. My dad was a Marine and he always said that "Army Intelligence" was a contradictory term.) So they work out a scheme. Blake is going to pretend he has developed some kind of bacteria for germ warfare. And sure enough, a fake news photographer shows up and hypnotizes Blake with a camera and gets him to write a fake note about how America is bad and he's going to take his germs to THE COMMIES! So Blake comes out of his trance behind the Iron Curtain in a dungeon with all the other defecting scientists. None of them will work for the Reds. I guess the hypnosis is only temporary. They are soon separated into different cells and Blake can turn into Thor unobserved and he flies around and wreaks havoc and the Red soldiers shoot at him and he's attacked by sharks. But the Commie leader threatens to destroy the dungeon and kill the scientists if Thor doesn't surrender. Thor surrenders and he is wrapped up in chains that have been "electronically treated." Which seems to mean he can't break them, but he doesn't even try. He is not holding the hammer. So after sixty seconds, he turns back to Don Blake. As everyone seems to have left the room in a hurry, no one sees him turn to Blake. The hammer is RIGHT THERE on the floor, so he touches it and becomes Thor again. He digs a hole from the dungeon into the countryside so the scientists can escape. Then he stamps his hammer and asks Odin to destroy the castle and thus the castle becomes a pile of rubble crawling with disheveled, grumpy Commies yelling at each other because they have failed. Blake and the scientists make their way to the coast and are helped by the freedom-loving people of whatever this country is. They are opposed to the Commies, so they help the scientists find a boat that will take them to freedom. Back in America, Jane is telling Don how wonderful it is that Thor saved everybody and how dreamy he is. Commentary: Well, it's not as bad as the previous "Thor vs. the Commies" story, the one in #84.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 24, 2024 21:10:29 GMT -5
This was the second Marvel comic I ever owned. As such, I will always regard this silly story with nostalgia.
Cei-U! I summon the loooooooooong time ago!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 24, 2024 22:33:36 GMT -5
Addition items for JIM # 87Don Blake reacts out to Colonel Harrison in Washington over the missing scientists. Blake seems to know lots of bigwigs for a regular Doctor. Blake goes to Washington by plane and packs to get there. After the meeting he turns into Thor to get home as quickly as possible leaving his luggage I guess. The scientists are behind the Iron Curtain and although its not said, the abductors appear to be Russian. Thors power again aren't spelled out and are still nebulous. He creates Thunder INSIDE A BUILDING and Odin has to help him. Cool Thor moments:Thor beats a school of sharks underwater, yet. He blinds his captors by rubbing his hammer and creating fireworks Not only does he dig out at super speed with his Hammer, no one gets hurt with flying debris. Goofy FunJane and all the early Kirby women seem to like to hold their faces with a hand on each side of their heads. Stan lee writer, Larry Lieber scripter, Kirby Art, Dick Ayers inks. I don't want to keep the controversy going on this thread but, Was Kirby plotting these Thor book? He seems to get all the credit for Thor later on in the run.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 24, 2024 22:52:51 GMT -5
Zarrko was mentioned a few issues ago, this is his appearance in Marvel Team -up #10 and 11.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jan 25, 2024 3:22:33 GMT -5
Stan lee writer, Larry Lieber scripter, Kirby Art, Dick Ayers inks. I don't want to keep the controversy going on this thread but, Was Kirby plotting these Thor book? He seems to get all the credit for Thor later on in the run. The credits for JIM #86 & 87 say plot: Stan Lee, script: Larry Lieber, art: Jack Kirby, inking: Dick Ayers.
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 25, 2024 5:52:54 GMT -5
He returns in a two-part story in Journey into Mystery #101 and #102. And then he disappears for 10 or 12 years and returns in a storyline in 1975 and 1976. Thor #242 to #245. #243 and #245 were my first two issues of Thor, and I didn’t read the other two issues in that storyline until just a few years ago. It’s true! Zarrko was my first Thor villain! In between JiM #102 and Thor #242, Zarrko and Kang squared off in Marvel Team-Up #9-11, a storyline that involved Spidey, Human Torch, the Inhumans, AND the Avengers.
Cei-U! I summon the forgotten showdown!
I checked out Marvel Team-Up Masterworks digitally from the library so I can read the Zarrko/Kang story. But I started reading it from the beginning and I probably won’t get to #9, #10 and #11 for a few days.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 6:49:01 GMT -5
In between JiM #102 and Thor #242, Zarrko and Kang squared off in Marvel Team-Up #9-11, a storyline that involved Spidey, Human Torch, the Inhumans, AND the Avengers.
Cei-U! I summon the forgotten showdown!
I checked out Marvel Team-Up Masterworks digitally from the library so I can read the Zarrko/Kang story. But I started reading it from the beginning and I probably won’t get to #9, #10 and #11 for a few days. Ha, you can’t just jump in at 9. What surprised me in the stories was the writers reflected what was happening in the regular Spider-man title. At the time there were only 2 Spidey titles.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 6:52:07 GMT -5
Stan lee writer, Larry Lieber scripter, Kirby Art, Dick Ayers inks. I don't want to keep the controversy going on this thread but, Was Kirby plotting these Thor book? He seems to get all the credit for Thor later on in the run. The credits for JIM #86 & 87 say plot: Stan Lee, script: Larry Lieber, art: Jack Kirby, inking: Dick Ayers. I understand , but general consensus was that Kirby is responsible for all the plotting for the Thor title when it hit the sweet spot (110-175). The stories so far , are average to poor. Was Lee the sole plotter, and did Kirby just add in the visuals ?
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 25, 2024 7:17:31 GMT -5
According to Larry Lieber, and I heard him say this in person at SDCC, all Thor stories crediting him as writer were done full script based on Stan's notes from his story conferences with Kirby. It's not clear how much latitude Jack had in interpreting those scripts but I'm guessing from the constipated layouts that he didn't often exercise whatever latitude he had, probably because he was juggling so many assignments with his main focus on Fantastic Four. Thor doesn't really become worthwhile until Stan takes over as scripter (okay, dialoguer) and lets Kirby's imagination loose from its chains.
Cei-U! I summon the horse's mouth!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 8:33:46 GMT -5
According to Larry Lieber, and I heard him say this in person at SDCC, all Thor stories crediting him as writer were done full script based on Stan's notes from his story conferences with Kirby. It's not clear how much latitude Jack had in interpreting those scripts but I'm guessing from the constipated layouts that he didn't often exercise whatever latitude he had, probably because he was juggling so many assignments with his main focus on Fantastic Four. Thor doesn't really become worthwhile until Stan takes over as scripter (okay, dialoguer) and lets Kirby's imagination loose from its chains. Cei-U! I summon the horse's mouth! Thanks for the answer, Kurt. What I'm getting at is that Kirby is praised for plotting " everything" associated with Stan Lee when it's good, but when it's subpar like these stories, there's no mention.
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Post by driver1980 on Jan 25, 2024 9:49:37 GMT -5
Not sure if this is an apples and oranges comparison, but years ago, I came across comments (not here) about Superman II, and some - not all - were stating that everything good about that film was due to Richard Donner, while everything bad was due to Richard Lester. Yet surely the truth is somewhere in between? (I watched Donner’s Cut years later, and there were things I both enjoyed and didn’t enjoy).
I sometimes feel the same applies to this debate.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2024 9:53:08 GMT -5
Not sure if this is an apples and oranges comparison, but years ago, I came across comments (not here) about Superman II, and some - not all - were stating that everything good about that film was due to Richard Donner, while everything bad was due to Richard Lester. Yet surely the truth is somewhere in between? (I watched Donner’s Cut years later, and there were things I both enjoyed and didn’t enjoy). I sometimes feel the same applies to this debate. There is too much bias when it comes to issues like this. I really don't have a dog in the race. I buy everything Kirby , but love the early collaborations between the two and recognize storytelling and dialogue differences when I read them.
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 25, 2024 9:57:22 GMT -5
Also, at this time, Stan was using some Ghosts for plot ideas. So some could be plot from who knows, script Leiber, art Kirby. Those issues from 83 to 100 are almost DC like in their villain of the week vibe. The Thor's one minute Hammer shtick was overused, and Blake's personality was all over the place. (at one point he becomes a research scientist in the back of his General Practice office. There was none of the different feel that the FF or Spider-Man had. I am fairly certain Kirby had not taken over plotting yet. Leiber was writing scripts at this point.
A good way to see is if there is a dramatic difference in the stories when Kirby was not drawing. Sometime after #100, when it becomes a Lee/Kirby, Kirby/Lee product, you can see the difference.
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