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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 9:48:10 GMT -5
Firstly, if you have the time, please read this Erik Larsen thread: I'd like to add something to Erik's very worthy thread. Does the "writing for the trade" approach prevent "cross-pollination"? Back in the day, it was nice to (occasionally) see villains show up in books to face heroes that weren't their regular adversaries. Picking up a Superman book to see Joker in it was a lot of fun; going through a back issue bin and seeing Scorpion appearing in a Captain America book was a "Wow" moment; and there was much pleasure in seeing someone like Gray Gargoyle show up in the Hulk's book. "Cross-pollination" isn't extinct now, but it feels like we rarely see it. Now, I must stress that I would never want to see it overdone (it'd be less special), but it certainly doesn't seem to happen as much now, if at all. Okay, there'll be occasional examples, but it's not a thing they seem to do now, at least from my experience. I presume, decades ago, it was no big deal for an editor to "loan", say, Kraven to another title. Back in the day of standalone tales, I'm sure it would have been no problem for Kraven to be "loaned" to Daredevil's book or Joker to be "loaned" to Superman's titles. I wonder, has "writing for the trade" made that approach impossible or near-impossible? A Marvel arc can run for 6 issues now. One, that locks them into a specific story. If a six-issue arc features Daredevil taking on Kingpin, you've got no chance really of seeing Kraven or the Frightful Four show up to plague DD. Two, and this is where I am presuming rather than stating fact, would an editor be as willing to "loan" the likes of Kraven to another editor if that means tying the character up for six months? The comic companies do write for the trade now, and like long arcs. I can imagine Daredevil writers wanting Kraven, but only for six months, so they can produce a DD VS Kraven trade down the line. Using my logic (I could be wrong), I could imagine a Spidey editor saying, "No, you can't have Kraven for six months." There has been "cross-pollination" (I read an Old Man Logan VS Kraven story a few months back). It can happen again. But it feels like the chances of it happening again are slim-to-none for the reasons outlined above. Thoughts? And if I'm wrong, tell me. I'm looking at two of you in particular.  I have stated I'm making presumptions, and I am engaging in guesswork. Right or wrong, go easy! |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 3, 2019 9:25:22 GMT -5
Any character can be used multiple times because one 6 issue story arc can take place in a two day period on that comic universe. I hear that writers used to be protective of the characters that they were writing, not wanting to lend them out to other books.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 3, 2019 10:53:51 GMT -5
Any character can be used multiple times because one 6 issue story arc can take place in a two day period on that comic universe. I hear that writers used to be protective of the characters that they were writing, not wanting to lend them out to other books. Writers and editors. Wonder Woman was only an honorary member of the Justice Society in the '40s because William Moulton Marston insisted on rewriting the WW solo segments of Gardner Fox's scripts. Editor Sheldon Mayer made this headache go away bt restricting Diana to what were essentially cameos. Twenty years later, Mort Weisinger and Jack Schiff had to have their wrists slapped by publisher Irwin Donenfeld before Superman and Batman were allowed to be full participants in Julius Schwartz's Justice League. In the '70s and early '80s, you had to get Stan Lee's blessing before you could use Silver Surfer... and he didn't give it often. Steve Gerber had similar feelings about others using Howard the Duck and Omega.There wasn't a lot of sharing in the formative years of the DC and Marvel shared universes.
Cei-U! I summon the precedents!
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Post by berkley on Oct 3, 2019 23:25:23 GMT -5
Any character can be used multiple times because one 6 issue story arc can take place in a two day period on that comic universe. I hear that writers used to be protective of the characters that they were writing, not wanting to lend them out to other books. Writers and editors. Wonder Woman was only an honorary member of the Justice Society in the '40s because William Moulton Marston insisted on rewriting the WW solo segments of Gardner Fox's scripts. Editor Sheldon Mayer made this headache go away bt restricting Diana to what were essentially cameos. Twenty years later, Mort Weisinger and Jack Schiff had to have their wrists slapped by publisher Irwin Donenfeld before Superman and Batman were allowed to be full participants in Julius Schwartz's Justice League. In the '70s and early '80s, you had to get Stan Lee's blessing before you could use Silver Surfer... and he didn't give it often. Steve Gerber had similar feelings about others using Howard the Duck and Omega.There wasn't a lot of sharing in the formative years of the DC and Marvel shared universes.
Cei-U! I summon the precedents!
Were Marvel series like Marvel team-Up and Two-in-One created for this very reason? Or I suppose DC series like World's Finest (and probably others, I suppose - I'm not as up on the old old DC stuff as I am the Marvel). Are any of these still around, come to think of it? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 4, 2019 5:40:27 GMT -5
Any character can be used multiple times because one 6 issue story arc can take place in a two day period on that comic universe. I hear that writers used to be protective of the characters that they were writing, not wanting to lend them out to other books. Writers and editors. Wonder Woman was only an honorary member of the Justice Society in the '40s because William Moulton Marston insisted on rewriting the WW solo segments of Gardner Fox's scripts. Editor Sheldon Mayer made this headache go away bt restricting Diana to what were essentially cameos. Twenty years later, Mort Weisinger and Jack Schiff had to have their wrists slapped by publisher Irwin Donenfeld before Superman and Batman were allowed to be full participants in Julius Schwartz's Justice League. In the '70s and early '80s, you had to get Stan Lee's blessing before you could use Silver Surfer... and he didn't give it often. Steve Gerber had similar feelings about others using Howard the Duck and Omega.There wasn't a lot of sharing in the formative years of the DC and Marvel shared universes.
Cei-U! I summon the precedents!
If I recall correctly, the Engelhart series is the first time the Surfer was without Lee at least dialoguing the story. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 4, 2019 9:15:16 GMT -5
Writers and editors. Wonder Woman was only an honorary member of the Justice Society in the '40s because William Moulton Marston insisted on rewriting the WW solo segments of Gardner Fox's scripts. Editor Sheldon Mayer made this headache go away bt restricting Diana to what were essentially cameos. Twenty years later, Mort Weisinger and Jack Schiff had to have their wrists slapped by publisher Irwin Donenfeld before Superman and Batman were allowed to be full participants in Julius Schwartz's Justice League. In the '70s and early '80s, you had to get Stan Lee's blessing before you could use Silver Surfer... and he didn't give it often. Steve Gerber had similar feelings about others using Howard the Duck and Omega.There wasn't a lot of sharing in the formative years of the DC and Marvel shared universes.
Cei-U! I summon the precedents!
Were Marvel series like Marvel team-Up and Two-in-One created for this very reason? Or I suppose DC series like World's Finest (and probably others, I suppose - I'm not as up on the old old DC stuff as I am the Marvel). Are any of these still around, come to think of it? In the case of World's Finest, teaming up Superman and Batman was simply a way to keep both lead features in the book after its page count was cut in half in 1954. You may, however, have hit on the reasoning behind turning The Brave and Bold into a team-up book, as it was the only place outside Justice League where characters from the various editorial fiefdoms rubbed shoulders. That wasn't an issue at Marvel, where Team-Up and Two-in-One were launched simply to sell more comics to Spidey and Thing fans.
Cei-U! I summon the rationale(s)!
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 4, 2019 9:21:46 GMT -5
Writers and editors. Wonder Woman was only an honorary member of the Justice Society in the '40s because William Moulton Marston insisted on rewriting the WW solo segments of Gardner Fox's scripts. Editor Sheldon Mayer made this headache go away bt restricting Diana to what were essentially cameos. Twenty years later, Mort Weisinger and Jack Schiff had to have their wrists slapped by publisher Irwin Donenfeld before Superman and Batman were allowed to be full participants in Julius Schwartz's Justice League. In the '70s and early '80s, you had to get Stan Lee's blessing before you could use Silver Surfer... and he didn't give it often. Steve Gerber had similar feelings about others using Howard the Duck and Omega.There wasn't a lot of sharing in the formative years of the DC and Marvel shared universes.
Cei-U! I summon the precedents!
If I recall correctly, the Engelhart series is the first time the Surfer was without Lee at least dialoguing the story. Not exactly. Englehart, Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, and Jim Shooter all guest-starred the Surfer (and scripted his dialogue) in titles like Fantastic Four, Avengers, Defenders, and even Tomb of Dracula prior to that series but only Stan could make significant changes to the character himself. It was only after he moved to California in the mid-'80s that his hold on ol' Norrin loosened up.
Cei-U! I summon the apron strings!
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 4, 2019 10:50:43 GMT -5
I guess I meant a solo Surfer story.
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Post by berkley on Oct 8, 2019 0:25:52 GMT -5
Were Marvel series like Marvel team-Up and Two-in-One created for this very reason? Or I suppose DC series like World's Finest (and probably others, I suppose - I'm not as up on the old old DC stuff as I am the Marvel). Are any of these still around, come to think of it? ... That wasn't an issue at Marvel, where Team-Up and Two-in-One were launched simply to sell more comics to Spidey and Thing fans.
Cei-U! I summon the rationale(s)!
Yeah, that was my impression too - one of the things Marvel was known for was the interconnections and guest appearances within their fictional universe, from a very early stage. I always assumed DC was much the same in that regard, but never read widely enough to really know.
I wonder how many Marvel readers like myself bought Two-in-One and Team-Up more for the creative team and/or guest stars than to see more of the regular lead characters, Spider-Man and the Thing? I'm sure I couldn't have been the only one.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 2, 2019 8:09:53 GMT -5
I always felt like the Team up books were more to renew trademarks than anything else... I mean, did some editor really care about seeing Nemesis? Or Aunt May? Sure, sometimes the writers would do multi-part stories with A listers, but I feel like most often it was just to renew trademarks in a way that would sell at least a few copies.
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I have stated I'm making presumptions, and I am engaging in guesswork. Right or wrong, go easy! 
