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Post by EdoBosnar on Jun 8, 2019 3:50:41 GMT -5
OT: This is also where Misty Knight fails to tell Cyclops or anyone else that Phoenix and The Beast are alive. They don't find this out until #125. I hate to contribute to OT threadjacking, but man, this is probably my biggest criticism of the otherwise excellent Claremont/Byrne run on X-men: the fact that Misty (and Colleen) are hanging out with the X-men for about 4 issues, and at no point does Misty, even casually, say 'Oh, I just saw Jean back in New York, before she left for Europe..." or more importantly, 'Did you know she thinks you guys are dead?'
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 8, 2019 11:32:12 GMT -5
An all-too-common habit of writers in the 70s was introducing sub-plots months in advance of stories, and going on for months just barely touching on those sub-plots until the story they're leading up to finally arrives. Newspaper strips used to do this (as did daytime soaps), but usually, one story at a time. It gets very annoying when you're re-reading the stories in collections, where those fore-shadowing scenes are even more out-of-place than they were when they were being done. (One of the most annoying examples I can think of this was Marv Wolfman in TOMB OF DRACULA.)
Anyway... while some fans at my comics-shop back then once decided Wolfman was "worse" than his buddy Wein, when he first started out, Chris Claremont seemed to me like he was trying to imitate the tone and feel of Wolfman's writing. Evertything was excessively-intense, unpleasant, and all the characters felt like they were heading for nervous breakdowns at the same time.
Claremont ALSO had the added bad habit of starting multiple sub-plots simultaneously... and then... FORGETTING about half of them in mid-swing. Wolfman himself did this during his DAREDEVIL run, but the king of this chaotic behavior has to be Claremont.
The strange thing was, despite Dave Cockrum being such a light-hearted fun-loving guy in real life, his art matched Claremont for its "intensity"... while Byrne, who wasn't HALF the penciller Cockrum was, somehow managed at times to make the stories LESS "intense" and slightly (ever so slightly) more "fun".
I couldn't even say how many times I crossed paths with Dave or Chris at shows or store appearances.
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 8, 2019 11:38:51 GMT -5
Sometimes, an editor should just say “no”. I can just picture an editor sitting behind his desk, reading a story proposal, then slowly looking across the room at the writer, and, without a word, flicking a cigarette lighter and SETTNG FIRE to the manuscript.
Then, in a menacing tone, saying... "Try again."
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Post by profh0011 on Jun 8, 2019 11:40:36 GMT -5
HOW MANY long-term problems in some comics series might have been avoided entirely, if only editors had stood up to Keith Giffen this way?
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Post by badwolf on Jun 10, 2019 14:14:47 GMT -5
X-Men #121 "Shoot-Out at the Stampede!" The remaining X-Men take the initiative and search for their missing teammates. Scouting from above, Storm finds Nightcrawler and Wolverine tied up in the middle of a field. They are sure it's a trap, but they've got no choice. Alpha Flight are finally fully revealed: Cyclops takes Vindicator to task for endangering civilians in previous encounters. Colossus observes Northstar looking like he's up to something and stomps the ground to interrupt him. A fight ensues, with Wolverine and Nightcrawler finally joining in (they wuz playin' possum). [There seems to be a weird disconnect between the writing and the art in this scene. Colossus' thought balloon says that Northstar is moving behind Cyclops. Not only is Colossus right behind Cyclops, but in the next panel when he does his stomp, Northstar is still among his own team, nowhere near Cyclops. I wonder if this was another narrative conflict between the the two co-plotters that eventually let to Byrne's departure.] While the teams are fighting, outside, Shaman's mystical storm is growing out of control. Storm uses all her power to stop it, and is greatly weakened. Northstar uses this to his advantage and knocks her out, referring to her as "obviously the most powerful X-Man." Cyclops retaliates and surprisingly, Wolverine holds him back. He says the fighting's gone on long enough, and he's going to surrender. Wolverine is loaded into an armored car and the X-Men are escorted back to the Canada-U.S. border. They unanimously decide to make another attempt at rescuing Wolverine and are about to turn back when Wolverine surprises them from the co-pilot's chair. "The cage ain't been built that can hold me," he says. Presumably Hudson, and the Canadian government, finally accept this as well.
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Post by rberman on Jun 10, 2019 15:00:37 GMT -5
Good fight, with a couple of goofy bits. Noooo, not the dreaded giant arctic owl! So much worse than Sauron or those extradimensional demons! "The cage ain't been built that can hold me," says Wolverine. I guess he's trying to forget this moment (#130): And especially this moment (#113):
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Post by badwolf on Jun 10, 2019 16:23:20 GMT -5
Hey man owls can be fierce!
At the time of X-Men #121 the cage hadn't been built that could hold Wolverine, but apparently by #130 someone had finally built one.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 10, 2019 16:30:05 GMT -5
HOW MANY long-term problems in some comics series might have been avoided entirely, if only editors had stood up to Keith Giffen this way? Interesting comment, what has Giffen ruined?
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Post by badwolf on Jun 10, 2019 19:14:53 GMT -5
Hulk Annual #8 "Sasquatch!" Written by Roger Stern and John Byrne Drawn by Sal Buscema and Alfredo Alcala As the issue opens, an unconscious Hulk is hurtling toward the Earth. He is discovered and aided by a woman who is staying at a nearby cabin. Although he landed in a rural, sparsely populated area, he has not gone unnoticed by Department H. Unfortunately most of Alpha Flight is indisposed, so Sasquatch is called in to investigate. The woman, who is called Maureen, tends to the Hulk, and eventually he calms enough to change back into Bruce Banner. Her cat begins to act strangely, and she leaves the cabin to investigate. Banner listens to a radio report of the Hulk's most recent rampage. He considers committing suicide with one of Maureen's shotguns when he hears a scream. Outside he finds Sasquatch manhandling Maureen. His first instinct is to shoot but then he realizes that that's how everyone reacts to the Hulk, and he puts the gun down. They talk for a moment before Sasquatch starts roughing Banner up, trying to trigger his transformation into the Hulk. Maureen begs him to stop, but Sasquatch informs her that it's purely for scientific purposes. Whatever you say, Walter. He recklessly dangles Banner over a cliff and he falls. As he lamely makes excuses to Maureen, a green hand appears on the ledge. Hulk and Sasquatch fight with trees.
Battle goes on for a while until they both end up under an avalanche of rocks. Sasquatch emerges holding Maureen and her cat and surveys the landscape: acres and acres of forest destroyed. Moments later Hulk emerges as well, enraged, until he sees the fear on Maureen's face. He turns to go, and as Sasquatch tries to lamely apologize, Hulk gives him one last swat and then leaps off. Sasquatch mentions that at least he managed to save Maureen (and her cat), and she replies "Save me from what?" Indeed.
**
Kind of a simplistic story for a double-sized annual. Little more than a slugfest, I think it's mediocre coming from Stern and Byrne. (It certainly pales before the previous year's effort.)
Sasquatch comes off very badly here--nearly killing Banner, endangering a civilian (and her cat), and obliterating a large section of primeval forest, all to satisfy his "scientific curiosity."
Sasquatch is one of those characters that can look really odd and funny when drawn by anyone other than his creator, but Sal doesn't do too badly with him. The only thing that's off is that he gives him more human eyes (white with pupils), rather than the dark red ones he should have.
**
Before we get to the next full story, the omnibus includes a brief scene from Fantastic Four #220, in which a patrolling Vindicator encounters the FF on their way to investigate a magnetic disturbance at the North Pole. The FF are respected and get a pass once Vindicator finds out who's on board the rocket.
I'm not a fan of excerpts like these in the omnibuses. Either include the entire issue or leave it out. Vindicator appears in two panels. At the end of the excerpt, the FF plummet to the earth. Thanks for the cliffhanger.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 10, 2019 21:03:27 GMT -5
RE: X-Men #121... I call upon the powers of Ookpik (and Neil Peart). A very famous rock album in Canada in the '70s
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 10, 2019 22:17:06 GMT -5
I still say, how can you have a fight at the Stampede and not have Stu Hart and the Stomper involved?
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 10, 2019 22:55:08 GMT -5
I only vaguely remember seeing Stampede Wrestling on tv flipping channels on a Sunday afternoon. There were shows about fishing I also vaguely recall but never watched more than half a minute of. I do remember Mad Dog Vachon sort of, and my brother knew a later Mad Dog Maretti through a gym they both went to, but Vachon to me means cakes!
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 11, 2019 9:17:38 GMT -5
I only vaguely remember seeing Stampede Wrestling on tv flipping channels on a Sunday afternoon. There were shows about fishing I also vaguely recall but never watched more than half a minute of. I do remember Mad Dog Vachon sort of, and my brother knew a later Mad Dog Maretti through a gym they both went to, but Vachon to me means cakes! The Vachons were involved more on Montreal wrestling, even running their own opposition promotion, at one point. Calgary was the home for Stampede Wrestling, which was Stu Hart and his sons (and sons-in-law, later). Archie Gouldie, aka the Stomper, was the lead heel for decades. He also headed south and worked for the southern US promotions, as the mongolian Stomper. Ended up retiring in Tennessee, where he worked for the Dept. of Corrections and was noted for cycling to work, over fairly long distances. Bruce and Kieth would have been around a while, at this point, and Brett would still be, relatively, a rookie. Dynamite Kid would be there, by this point and he would be changing the face of things. Stampede was noted for using smaller guys, like Dynamite, and had a long association with Japan, which brought in some of their top rookies and stars, leading to a fast paced style that was different than the other Canadian (and most US) promotions. By the early 80s, Stampede was the place to catch the future, with Brett, Dynamite Kid, Davey Boy Smith, Bad News Allen (Bad News Brown, in the WWF), and the future Jushin Liger (Keiichi Yamada). When Vince McMahon was expanding his father's promotion, to become the WWF juggernaut, he cut a deal with Stu to buy him out, which included bringing Brett, Jim Neidhart, Davey Boy Smith and Dynamite Kid into the company. Neidhart, Smith and Kid were all related, by marriage, to Brett. Diana Hart was married to Davey Boy, Ellie Hart to Neidhart, and Dynamite was married to brett's sister-in-law. The other two Hart sisters, Georgia and Alison, were also married to wrestlers, who worked for Stampede. I guess the only wrestling fans at Marvel were the New York area guys, like Gruenwald and Ron Wilson, who referenced WWWF stars, like Bruno Sammartino and Bobo Brazil. I guess Byrne wasn't a fan of Stampede, Maple Leaf, Toronto, or the Maritimes (all prominent Canadian wrestling territories).
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Post by badwolf on Jun 12, 2019 13:01:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure how we got onto snack cakes but it is fortuitous because our next story is a favorite of mine which shows how Alpha Flight defeated the Wendigo by filling him up with snack cakes rather than fresh human meat. Er, wait, I think I got confused there. Why is Hulk punching a tree at the end? Who is the real villain here? Weak story all around. Note: This story does not appear in the Alpha Flight Omnibus.
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Post by badwolf on Jun 12, 2019 13:52:08 GMT -5
X-Men #139 I think this was the first of the "Welcome to the X-Men, _______, hope you survive the experience" covers. During the time I was reading the book, it was repeated with Rogue and Havok. "...Something Wicked This Way Comes!" We open on a Danger Room training sequence, where Angel is woefully out of practice, endangering his fellow X-Men, though their teamwork saves them. (I remember finding this exchange between Wolverine and Xavier hilarious as a kid.) Kitty Pryde, accepting Storm's suggested codename of Sprite, is officially inducted into the X-Men. Wolverine tells Xavier that he wants to go up to Canada to clear up his record, so that their government, and Alpha Flight, aren't continually hassling them. Xavier thinks that's a good idea but suggests accompaniment. Wolverine invites Nightcrawler, who agrees; he'd like to see Aurora again. Kitty is ecstatic that she won't have to give up dancing as Storm takes her to the studio of Stevie Hunter, who would become a regular supporting character, both here and in The New Mutants. Heather Hudson is returning from food shopping when she is surprised by Wolverine and Nightcrawler hanging out in her kitchen, helping themselves to beverages. She calls Wolverine Logan and Nightcrawler asks why he never told them his real name. They never asked, he replies. As long as Wolverine isn't there to fight her husband, she tells them where he can be found. James Hudson is getting used to his battlesuit but is still uncomfortable with putting his life on the line. He returns to Shaman and Snowbird, informing them that the other half of the team has been sent to the U.S. on another mission. (Nightcrawler will be disappointed...or you could say he dodged a bullet.) Shaman detects intruders, but it's just Wolverine and Nightcrawler. Snowbird, who had been scouting outside as a bear, startles Nightcrawler, and she sounds really sorry about it. Really. Mac fills them in on what's been going on. A camping family was attacked by a ravenous beast. The father was killed, the son ran off and is now in custody, but the mother and baby are still missing. They've got a plaster cast of the creature's footprint; it's too big to be a bear and no one can identify it... except Wolverine. He tells them of his previous encounter with the Wendigo and the Hulk. He's convinced he's the one best suited for finding the missing campers.
(looks much better when Byrne draws it...)
Nightcrawler departs to bring in their gear from their rental vehicle, and perhaps for the second time this issue, soils his costume. And who could blame him? The Wendigo has found them.
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