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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 27, 2019 19:52:31 GMT -5
We had Chinese rag and bone men out here in the 19th century and later, I've just never heard about jewish ones. Tailors and people in the garment districts but not the rag picker sorts which was "solely a job for the lowest of the working classes" which was where the Irish immigrants found themselves in America (and the Chinese on the west coast). Apparently there's still some of the Irish in the trade in the U.K. I dunno man, I don't want to get called a bunch of names here for disagreeing, it's just another 'I know what I know' things like Christopher Marlowe being officially credited on Shakespeare works. I think Kanigher was basing the Irish aspect from what he knew about and maybe his experience going back to Happy Hooligan and such in the old NY comic strips... "everything about the character screamed that he was Jewish" said Irish immigrants in America to me. Edit here to add: and Italians. ^ Happy Hooligan, early comic strip character.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 27, 2019 20:23:24 GMT -5
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 27, 2019 21:21:08 GMT -5
It's been a long time since I read the original; but, I had it. I also had the Kieth Giffen one, post-Crisis. As I recall (again, been a while) it had a stronger Jewish connection and was tied to the tale of the Golem of Prague.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 27, 2019 22:26:14 GMT -5
Anthro - Showcase 74, Anthro 1-6. March 1968 - August 69. Writer/Artist: Howie Post Spinning out of an appearance in Showcase and into his own short lived comic book is Anthro, the first boy. Anthro is a cro-magnon who is the son of a clearly neanderthal father and his mother who had been kidnapped from another tribe. What a wild comic. This was unlike anything else that I can think of on the market at the time...or most of the time since. The book hits a ton of notes and hits almost all of them cleverly and sometimes brilliantly. At its heart the book is about family. Anthro, his parents, his surly grandmother and his little brother live in prehistoric times as hunter gatherers in a dangerous world. The danger comes from the animals they hunt (and that occasionally hunt them), from other tribes of men, and from the very nature of a wild environment. Given the family make-up and the personalities the book could easily fall into being a sit-com. And while it toys with that possibility it skirts it because there is so much more. There is action and adventure and danger, particularly in the daily hunt to find food. It also flirts with the teen-romance genre in Anthro's dealings with Embra, a beautiful young girl from the Horse Tribe. But again Post is able to skirt the tropes and build a number of interesting and fun and occasionally daring episodes. Obviously this is Howie Post's baby. Wally Wood inked the final issue, but otherwise it's all Post. And it seems he was having a great time. The art fit the tone and the writing is largely excellent. It's not without fault. Yes there are errors in the anthropology and in the historic timeline. But at least we don't get cavemen fighting dinosaurs. Even when I noticed the issues...and I noticed them...they didn't take me out of the story. I do think that issue #4 didn't work completely for me. It felt a bit too much like a Burroughs Lost World story shoe-horned in to my nice book about a prehistoric family. So was it gone too soon? Holy Hells YES! DC brought out some really good comics in the late Silver Age. And for whatever reason comics fans didn't embrace them. This was a totally different book from Bat Lash. And they were both totally different than pretty much anything else on the market at the time. And both, unjustly, sank into oblivion. Lash at least had periodic revivals. Anthro has largely remained gone with only a handful of appearances over the ensuing decades. But this was a truly exceptional comic book that deserved a long and healthy run.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jun 28, 2019 7:34:52 GMT -5
I own the complete run of Anthro, including the Showcase issue, and it is unquestionably one of the jewels of my collection. Just freakin' brilliant.
Cei-U! Gone too soon? HELL, yes!
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 28, 2019 7:37:04 GMT -5
We had Chinese rag and bone men out here in the 19th century and later, I've just never heard about jewish ones. Tailors and people in the garment districts but not the rag picker sorts which was "solely a job for the lowest of the working classes" which was where the Irish immigrants found themselves in America (and the Chinese on the west coast). Apparently there's still some of the Irish in the trade in the U.K. I dunno man, I don't want to get called a bunch of names here for disagreeing, it's just another 'I know what I know' things like Christopher Marlowe being officially credited on Shakespeare works. I think Kanigher was basing the Irish aspect from what he knew about and maybe his experience going back to Happy Hooligan and such in the old NY comic strips... "everything about the character screamed that he was Jewish" said Irish immigrants in America to me. Edit here to add: and Italians. ^ Happy Hooligan, early comic strip character. Who's calling you names? All I said was that the original Ragman title had a Jewish vibe to it, one that I was far from alone in noticing. I wondered why then the hero was named Rory Regan and was a ragman. I didn't doubt that there were or had been Irish ragmen... in the mid-19th century. But the stories were set in a more modern era when, as so often happens, the more recent immigrants inherited the jobs left behind by those who came before them. The scrap business was one that in essence was left to the Jews, who emigrated to America in the late 19th century. But you know that. As it turns out, when the character was reintroduced in the early '90s, that sense of Jewishness was emphasized and made overt by Kanigher, who, like Kubert, was Jewish. Regan's name was revealed to have been shortened from Reganiewicz (Kanigher could have done better there), and Ragman's power, costume and origin explicitly linked with the Golem. I didn't know that for a fact, so I looked it up. Kanigher (born 1915) grew up in New York City when Jews would have been the ragmen and scrap dealers. Oh, and Happy Hooligan wasn't a ragman, but what today might be called a homeless person. Back then he was called a tramp or a hobo. Hence his raggedy outfit.
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 28, 2019 7:55:33 GMT -5
The initial run was completed, but I wish DC had done another Wednesday Comics, as long as they kept the quality.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jun 28, 2019 11:25:36 GMT -5
I like anything aquatic, I'd even buy Man From Atlantis comics from the '70s that were fairly uninspired, and it felt like they should've made some use of Dolphin in Aquaman at the very least. I actually liked the lack of a colorful costume but I imagine that hurt in terms of not attracting attention. Those visual elements; you can't write seriously with 'em but you can't sell without 'em? This was also the era when DC was experimenting with stripping Wonder Woman, the Teen Titans, and the Metal Men of their distinctive looks. None of the others lasted that long and Dolphin never had a pre-existing more flashy costume to revert to. Btw, by headcanon is that that Man from Atlantis series is the background of Amphibion of the Squadron Supreme.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jun 28, 2019 11:55:28 GMT -5
We had Chinese rag and bone men out here in the 19th century and later, I've just never heard about jewish ones. Tailors and people in the garment districts but not the rag picker sorts which was "solely a job for the lowest of the working classes" which was where the Irish immigrants found themselves in America (and the Chinese on the west coast). Apparently there's still some of the Irish in the trade in the U.K. I dunno man, I don't want to get called a bunch of names here for disagreeing, it's just another 'I know what I know' things like Christopher Marlowe being officially credited on Shakespeare works. I think Kanigher was basing the Irish aspect from what he knew about and maybe his experience going back to Happy Hooligan and such in the old NY comic strips... "everything about the character screamed that he was Jewish" said Irish immigrants in America to me. Edit here to add: and Italians. ^ Happy Hooligan, early comic strip character. Who's calling you names? All I said was that the original Ragman title had a Jewish vibe to it, one that I was far from alone in noticing. I wondered why then the hero was named Rory Regan and was a ragman. I didn't doubt that there were or had been Irish ragmen... in the mid-19th century. But the stories were set in a more modern era when, as so often happens, the more recent immigrants inherited the jobs left behind by those who came before them. The scrap business was one that in essence was left to the Jews, who emigrated to America in the late 19th century. But you know that. As it turns out, when the character was reintroduced in the early '90s, that sense of Jewishness was emphasized and made overt by Kanigher, who, like Kubert, was Jewish. Regan's name was revealed to have been shortened from Reganiewicz (Kanigher could have done better there), and Ragman's power, costume and origin explicitly linked with the Golem. I didn't know that for a fact, so I looked it up. Kanigher (born 1915) grew up in New York City when Jews would have been the ragmen and scrap dealers. Oh, and Happy Hooligan wasn't a ragman, but what today might be called a homeless person. Back then he was called a tramp or a hobo. Hence his raggedy outfit. But I knew what? You've made comments before that people (and myself) are drunk or on drugs when you disagree with them (for me it was when i simply pointed out that there was more than one author for Shakespeare and that Marlowe was officially given co-creator status for the Shakespear works)...I just had to sit through someone on a music forum doing this same trip on Ringo of the Beatles. I've read many books on New York City history, but I guess Kanigher was wrong to name his character Irish etc. etc. etc... ...I have to leave. My blood pressure can't handle this, seriously. This best new member is done. May my great uncle who died protesting the Jewish men being marched off in occupied Holland forgive me.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 28, 2019 12:40:46 GMT -5
^^This really saddens me. I have always found this a pleasant place to talk comics and greatly enjoyed beccabear's contributions. I hope that things can cool off and everyone can resolve their differences in a constructive and friendly manner and that beccabear will reconsider.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 28, 2019 13:06:50 GMT -5
Who's calling you names? All I said was that the original Ragman title had a Jewish vibe to it, one that I was far from alone in noticing. I wondered why then the hero was named Rory Regan and was a ragman. I didn't doubt that there were or had been Irish ragmen... in the mid-19th century. But the stories were set in a more modern era when, as so often happens, the more recent immigrants inherited the jobs left behind by those who came before them. The scrap business was one that in essence was left to the Jews, who emigrated to America in the late 19th century. But you know that. As it turns out, when the character was reintroduced in the early '90s, that sense of Jewishness was emphasized and made overt by Kanigher, who, like Kubert, was Jewish. Regan's name was revealed to have been shortened from Reganiewicz (Kanigher could have done better there), and Ragman's power, costume and origin explicitly linked with the Golem. I didn't know that for a fact, so I looked it up. Kanigher (born 1915) grew up in New York City when Jews would have been the ragmen and scrap dealers. Oh, and Happy Hooligan wasn't a ragman, but what today might be called a homeless person. Back then he was called a tramp or a hobo. Hence his raggedy outfit. But I knew what? You've made comments before that people (and myself) are drunk or on drugs when you disagree with them (for me it was when i simply pointed out that there was more than one author for Shakespeare and that Marlowe was officially given co-creator status for the Shakespear works)...I just had to sit through someone on a music forum doing this same trip on Ringo of the Beatles. I've read many books on New York City history, but I guess Kanigher was wrong to name his character Irish etc. etc. etc. ...I have to leave. My blood pressure can't handle this, seriously. This best new member is done. May my great uncle who died protesting the Jewish men being marched off in occupied Holland forgive me. I find you very humorless and I am just one of a number to have these confrontations with you. I'm sorry that Prince Hal and Falstaff the characters being created by a homosexual bothers you so if that's what set you against me. We probably have a lot of similar tastes and political opinions too but your passive-aggressive activity here is not something I want to be around any more. Enjoy. Whoa, whoa! In some kind of order: I have no idea what personal attacks you're talking about. "Pour me some of what you've been drinking," or some similar phrase I used is a joke. A joke, not an insinuation that you are an alcoholic. You know that, right? I have no idea what you're talking about where Ringo (I'm a fan) is concerned. All I was doing (in the cases of Marlowe and Ragman... there's a Brave and the Bold team-up in waiting) was contesting what you stated just as you had contested what I had stated. That's the spirit of discussion and polite argument, isn't it? If you'd said that because "you know what you know," the world is flat, I think you'd know that someone would disagree with you. There are such things as facts. And Marlowe is not the "co-creator" of Shakespeare's plays. Did he influence Shakespeare? Undoubtedly. But did he "co-create" with him? Not one shred of evidence comes close to demonstrating that this is true. (Pound for pound, I would surmise that Thomas Nashe had far more specific and demonstrable influence on Shakespeare's plays than Marlowe.) As for this recent disagreement, I never said that RK was "wrong" to make Ragman Irish. In fact, I agreed with you that there were indeed ragmen who were Irish, but that it had been the case in the mid-1800s, and that Kanigher, because of where and when he lived, was probably referring to ragmen who were Jewish, that's all. I was speaking up for the possibility, based on the feel of the stories and the milieu, that Kanigher had originally intended his hero to be Jewish. I wanted Rory Regan to be Jewish and was wondering (as I said earlier) whether Kanigher had been told or decided not to make him so. And b/c I didn't know about the second incarnation of the character, I looked it up and found that the second time around, Kanigher had indeed made Regan Jewish, something I and many other readers had sensed was true to begin with, and which I thought was perfect for the character. I hadn't realized that I was responsible for the Politics thread being closed. How you know that is beyond me. And what's that last remark about my dislike for Shakespeare because he was a gay man? Talk about passive aggression. Talk about personal attacks. Talk about illogic. I'm sorry that you're choosing to leave, and I apologize to anyone who found what I wrote to be "personal attacks." They were not intended to be.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2019 13:29:00 GMT -5
^^This really saddens me. I have always found this a pleasant place to talk comics and greatly enjoyed beccabear's contributions. I hope that things can cool off and everyone can resolve their differences in a constructive and friendly manner and that beccabear will reconsider. I hope beccabear stays. Take a short break. And if certain posters push your buttons just don't interact with them.
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Post by Farrar on Jun 28, 2019 13:33:35 GMT -5
Ok folks, time to put my mod hat on. Let's keep this thread on topic. Any further posts that are not on topic will be deleted.
Thanks, everyone.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jun 28, 2019 15:02:46 GMT -5
As for this recent disagreement, I never said that RK was "wrong" to make Ragman Irish. In fact, I agreed with you that there were indeed ragmen who were Irish, but that it had been the case in the mid-1800s, and that Kanigher, because of where and when he lived, was probably referring to ragmen who were Jewish, that's all. I was speaking up for the possibility, based on the feel of the stories and the milieu, that Kanigher had originally intended his hero to be Jewish. I wanted Rory Regan to be Jewish and was wondering (as I said earlier) whether Kanigher had been told or decided not to make him so. And b/c I didn't know about the second incarnation of the character, I looked it up and found that the second time around, Kanigher had indeed made Regan Jewish, something I and many other readers had sensed was true to begin with, and which I thought was perfect for the character. In the Book From Krakow to Krypton, Joe Kubert talks about creating Ragman with a Jewish heritage with no mention of the Irish. linkI don't think Kanigher had any input into the post-Crisis Ragman of the 90s. That was plotted and laid out by Keith Giffen and scripled by another Robert, Robert Loren Fleming.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 28, 2019 15:33:33 GMT -5
As for this recent disagreement, I never said that RK was "wrong" to make Ragman Irish. In fact, I agreed with you that there were indeed ragmen who were Irish, but that it had been the case in the mid-1800s, and that Kanigher, because of where and when he lived, was probably referring to ragmen who were Jewish, that's all. I was speaking up for the possibility, based on the feel of the stories and the milieu, that Kanigher had originally intended his hero to be Jewish. I wanted Rory Regan to be Jewish and was wondering (as I said earlier) whether Kanigher had been told or decided not to make him so. And b/c I didn't know about the second incarnation of the character, I looked it up and found that the second time around, Kanigher had indeed made Regan Jewish, something I and many other readers had sensed was true to begin with, and which I thought was perfect for the character. In the Book From Krakow to Krypton, Joe Kubert talks about creating Ragman with a Jewish heritage with no mention of the Irish. linkI don't think Kanigher had any input into the post-Crisis Ragman of the 90s. That was plotted and laid out by Keith Giffen and scripled by another Robert, Robert Loren Fleming. Ah-hah. So it was clear that the provenance of the character, so to speak, struck Giffen (and perhaps Fleming) as it struck me and many other readers. Thanks for that information. And for the mention of From Krakow to Krypton. I'll look for that!
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