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Post by mikelmidnight on Feb 20, 2019 13:06:26 GMT -5
Lobo for me as well. never understood why genocide was funny.
I think I'd go along with that. There are plenty of other characters I dislike but he's the one that may irk me the most. I think my main problem is that he's in the mainstream DCU but not locked up. Ron Post has killed way more people than Lobo but his stories are more clever and I kind of like the Post Brothers.
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Post by beccabear67 on Feb 20, 2019 13:24:08 GMT -5
If this was a real comic I'd burn it. I am hoping someone added the horrible dialogue and Dork sound effect, someone who really hates comic books. Reminds me of those awful get Shorty and Be Cool movies someone tried to make me watch once. Hate hate hate... not clever or cool, just ugly hateful fascistic garbage pretending to be. I have to leave now. This and Liefeld made me ill.
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Post by foxley on Feb 20, 2019 14:32:09 GMT -5
If this was a real comic I'd burn it. I am hoping someone added the horrible dialogue and Dork sound effect, someone who really hates comic books. Reminds me of those awful get Shorty and Be Cool movies someone tried to make me watch once. Hate hate hate... not clever or cool, just ugly hateful fascistic garbage pretending to be. I have to leave now. This and Liefeld made me ill. It is a real comic. It is called Marville, and it is (by all accounts) one of the worst titles Marvel ever brought out. I was looking for some screen shots that showed Iron Man in a bad light, and while these were supposed to be a comic exaggeration, in my mind they are so barely that they seem to make my point.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 14:50:38 GMT -5
Lobo was okay, at the start, in JLI and at least the first min; but, he was too over-the-top for it to bother me, until DC took a page from the Marvel playbook and shoved him down our throats. I was at the 1992 HeroesCon and at least 4 different artists were working on Lobo projects, all of which were never released. Given how much was, you can imagine how much crap DC commissioned for that twit.
For me, it's Punisher. Let's start with the fact that he is a cheap rip-off of Mack Bolan, from Don Pendleton's Executioner series of novels; pretty much a carbon copy, with a skull on his shirt. Next, add the fact that he was so poorly written, for so long. I read a chunk of the Executioner series and the subsequent revamp that was done (working for the government as a counter-terrorist agent); and, Pendleton and the other writers had better plots and wrote a more realistic, if fantasized character. Also, although Bolan took on armies of mob hoods, he did it with military strategy and weapons and Pendleton, at least, worked out the gun battles to give them some semblance of logic and possibility. Punisher just randomly sprays bullets and gets saved by magic kevlar armor. For what artists depict, he would be carrying around 200lbs of trauma plating and kevlar fiber, to the point he'd be bulkier than the Hulk. He started out as a Marine, then was turned into a special warfare god, by writers who can't even identify correct service uniforms, let alone have any knowledge. You don't need to have first-hand experience, if you do even basic research; but, no one ever did. Don't get me started on those excremental Nam issues with that s@#$-bird! Totally ruined what was still a pretty decent comic (though it was a shade of the first year and a ghost of Vietnam Journal).
It was okay when he made occasional appearances, like in Captain America (the one with the Miller cover), where Cap still thinks he is scum, but they work together against a common foe. Then, thanks to the 80s cinematic fascination with automatic weapons an vigilante heroes, he got what pro wrestling calls "a push." Next thing you know, he's got two regular series, all kinds of specials and guest appearances and never so much as changes a magazine. Anybody causing that much carnage is going to be facing a government task force (Bolan did, by his third novel), let alone a superhero posse that has had enough.
To sum up: UUUuuggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 20, 2019 14:55:07 GMT -5
Hal Jordan Let's give the ring to the most uptight un-imaginative, dull as dishwater character. Yeah, he's Paul Newman but man he is vapid as hell. Hal's a clear-cut Maverick archetype. He's got a problem with authority, rules, confines of any possible kind and he prefers to fly in blind than to actually think about stuff......and usually I enjoy characters like that. Han Solo, Kirk, etc. But with Hal......it often feels like he's just a huge idiot who can barely function as an adult. He doesn't strike me as a free spirit as much as someone trying to avoid being accountable for his own actions. Yeah, definitely not one of my top 3,599 favorite Green Lanterns. (I get to use that joke about once every 3 years, and it makes me happy every time.) I quite like the Adams Green Lantern, but I think it spoiled Hal Jordan for me by making him the conservative straight man to Green Arrow. I never really felt the character after that. And the semi-kinda-pseudo-pedophile thing with Arrissa later on didn't help. Kinda liked the Flash back-ups where he was flying around with Itty, but that's about it.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 15:01:48 GMT -5
Some characters just require the right people. Iron Man is definitely one. The David Micheline stories, with JRJR and Bob Layton were pretty good, with Tony forced out of his comfort zone, to get past Justin Hammer's control of his armor. There was a good character mix, at that time, and some interesting threats. There was also his foray into East Germany, in the stealth armor, when he runs into the living laser. The armor has little offensive weaponry and he has to think creatively. There was some good, logical problem solving in the plots of that run. The Armor Wars stories were fun and different, as Tony was up against villains, heroes, and SHIELD. Kind of changed things up.
Now, from the 90s onward, I would tend to agree, as new gimmick armor became the standard and plots were even more recycled than before. then he is acting out of character in Civil War and is further tweaked to match RDJ's performance.
Booster Gold only worked, for me, in JLI, with Beetle. They were great in the hands of Giffen and DeMatteis. The cartoon was trying to filter a mixture of that and the Jurgens series, which did nothing for me. It seemed like DC wanted to create an instant superstar and just threw a ton of junk into a pot and that was the result, right down to ugly costume. i thought Kurt Busiek did the character type better, with Crackerjack, in Astro City. However, when paired with Beetle, Booster was vastly improved.
Shatterstar is an ugly design; but a cypher as a character, as are pretty much all of Liefeld's steroid freaks. Same with Gambit. To me, he was nothing but a scene filler. I hated the character on the X-Men cartoon, with the bad cajun accent (from the guy co-starring in Kung Fu, The Legend Continues); bt, that was par for the course, in that show (Rogue's "Southern accent," etc). At least Wolverine didn't have an Australian accent in that one, like in Spiderman & His Amazing Friends, and Pryde of the X-Men. I think someone at the studio got a wolverine mixed up with a tasmanian devil!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 15:01:54 GMT -5
To those who don't like Hal Jordan's Green Lantern... Would you care to step outside for a moment?
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Post by badwolf on Feb 20, 2019 15:06:01 GMT -5
Another founding Avenger I disliked was the Wasp: her power is ... she's a spoiled rich brat? Never felt the charm of this character was presumably meant to possess. I understand they've tried to make her more impressive the last few decades but I stopped reading the Avengers in the late 70s so I missed all that and still see her as the annoyingly whimsical heiress who spends most of her time shopping for over-priced designer clothes. I hated her too, until Roger Stern revised her in the 80s. She became quite a likeable and strong character. None of that shopping parody nonsense.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 15:06:11 GMT -5
Hal Jordan is a tough one to make exciting. I think Darwyn Cooke had the best take on him, in New frontier, as someone who idolized Chuck Yeager and the flyers and test pilots of the war and post-war era (his father included). He longs to be alongside guys like Yeager and the Mercury Seven. He's suffered trauma in Korea and refuses to take a life, which washes him out as a fighter pilot, which affects his whole career.
Cooke had a good handle on a lot of those characters, really. His Ted Grant was the best in years and he made Martian Manhunter pretty cool, having him mimic what he saw of tv cops (Darren McGavin, as Mike Hammer).
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 20, 2019 16:52:21 GMT -5
For me, it's Punisher. Let's start with the fact that he is a cheap rip-off of Mack Bolan, from Don Pendleton's Executioner series of novels; pretty much a carbon copy, with a skull on his shirt. Next, add the fact that he was so poorly written, for so long. I read a chunk of the Executioner series and the subsequent revamp that was done (working for the government as a counter-terrorist agent); and, Pendleton and the other writers had better plots and wrote a more realistic, if fantasized character. Also, although Bolan took on armies of mob hoods, he did it with military strategy and weapons and Pendleton, at least, worked out the gun battles to give them some semblance of logic and possibility. Punisher just randomly sprays bullets and gets saved by magic kevlar armor. For what artists depict, he would be carrying around 200lbs of trauma plating and kevlar fiber, to the point he'd be bulkier than the Hulk. He started out as a Marine, then was turned into a special warfare god, by writers who can't even identify correct service uniforms, let alone have any knowledge. You don't need to have first-hand experience, if you do even basic research; but, no one ever did. Don't get me started on those excremental Nam issues with that s@#$-bird! Totally ruined what was still a pretty decent comic (though it was a shade of the first year and a ghost of Vietnam Journal). It was okay when he made occasional appearances, like in Captain America (the one with the Miller cover), where Cap still thinks he is scum, but they work together against a common foe. Then, thanks to the 80s cinematic fascination with automatic weapons an vigilante heroes, he got what pro wrestling calls "a push." Next thing you know, he's got two regular series, all kinds of specials and guest appearances and never so much as changes a magazine. Anybody causing that much carnage is going to be facing a government task force (Bolan did, by his third novel), let alone a superhero posse that has had enough. To sum up: UUUuuggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! This sums up how I feel about the Punisher quite nicely.
Cei-U!
Thanks for saving me the trouble of forming an argument, cody!
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Post by The Captain on Feb 20, 2019 17:06:12 GMT -5
Seeing as Rick Jones isn't really a superhero, I can put away my usual rant about how much I hate him for another thread.
I can't stand Wolverine, although my feelings toward him have mellowed in recent years due to his declining exposure and my reading fewer new books. From the moment he was brought into the X-Men, his whole brooding, tortured loner persona wore thin, and when he started horning in on Jean Grey, that really pissed me off.
Currently, my least favorites would have to be Deadpool and Harley Quinn. Overexposed and unfunny, their self-aware fourth-wall breaking schtick is completely annoying. Deadpool was palatable when he first arrived as a villainous mercenary, even if he did come from the mind of Rob Liefeld, but the slow turn to anti-hero and eventually full-blown hero (and an Avenger, for the love of all that's holy) while becoming the Bugs Bunny of comic book characters drove me away.
Harley Quinn? Just unnecessary, but I get her; she's T&A for guys and girls who like girls, and a quirky non-traditional anti-hero for female readers who want someone in that role that isn't Wolverine or Deadpool.
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Post by Duragizer on Feb 20, 2019 17:13:29 GMT -5
Any ultraviolent, satirical antihero who possesses regenerative abilities.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:18:38 GMT -5
Speaking of Deadpool, here in the UK, he has his own title (Deadpool Unleashed), occupies one third of Wolverine and Deadpool, and also occupies one third of Astonishing Spider-Man.
(The UK Marvel comics, usually 76 pages and monthly, reprint 3 US strips per issue; Astonishing Spider-Man is fortnightly).
Some feel it's overexposure. I buy those titles. I don't mind Deadpool having his own book or occupying one third of the Wolverine comic, but occupying one third of Spidey's UK comic is too much. I think the ongoing Spider-Man/Deadpool comic is not to my liking. Those characters are similar in some respects (humour-wise, not in the way they operate), but I wish the UK Spidey comic would get rid of the Spidey/Deadpool strip. With Deadpool having his own title, and occupying one third of Wolverine's title, do we really need him occupying a third of Spidey's title, too?
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 20, 2019 17:59:41 GMT -5
Harley Quinn? Comic book and movie version, yes. Original BTAS version? No. Harley in the hands of Paul Dini , Bruce Timm and the rest of the gang was pure joy; a quirky character, made great by Arlene Sorkin's wonderful voicework and writing that fed those strengths. She turned out to be even better when pulled away from the Joker, as in "Harley & Ivy" and "Harley's Holiday." "Mad Love" got inside her head to see why she loves her Puddin'
Once they brought her to the comics, it fell apart. In the first place, the writers were not of Paul Dini's caliber. In the second, you didn't have Sorkin adding personality to the drawings. third, you had artists who didn't date much, turning her into some kind of nerd cheesecake figure, then a Suicide Girl model/stripper. Sometimes it seems like modern comics are poison to a good idea. Well, corporate comics, anyway.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 20, 2019 18:03:32 GMT -5
Lobo was okay, at the start, in JLI and at least the first min; but, he was too over-the-top for it to bother me, until DC took a page from the Marvel playbook and shoved him down our throats. I was at the 1992 HeroesCon and at least 4 different artists were working on Lobo projects, all of which were never released. Given how much was, you can imagine how much crap DC commissioned for that twit. For me, it's Punisher. Let's start with the fact that he is a cheap rip-off of Mack Bolan, from Don Pendleton's Executioner series of novels; pretty much a carbon copy, with a skull on his shirt. Next, add the fact that he was so poorly written, for so long. I read a chunk of the Executioner series and the subsequent revamp that was done (working for the government as a counter-terrorist agent); and, Pendleton and the other writers had better plots and wrote a more realistic, if fantasized character. Also, although Bolan took on armies of mob hoods, he did it with military strategy and weapons and Pendleton, at least, worked out the gun battles to give them some semblance of logic and possibility. Punisher just randomly sprays bullets and gets saved by magic kevlar armor. For what artists depict, he would be carrying around 200lbs of trauma plating and kevlar fiber, to the point he'd be bulkier than the Hulk. He started out as a Marine, then was turned into a special warfare god, by writers who can't even identify correct service uniforms, let alone have any knowledge. You don't need to have first-hand experience, if you do even basic research; but, no one ever did. Don't get me started on those excremental Nam issues with that s@#$-bird! Totally ruined what was still a pretty decent comic (though it was a shade of the first year and a ghost of Vietnam Journal). It was okay when he made occasional appearances, like in Captain America (the one with the Miller cover), where Cap still thinks he is scum, but they work together against a common foe. Then, thanks to the 80s cinematic fascination with automatic weapons an vigilante heroes, he got what pro wrestling calls "a push." Next thing you know, he's got two regular series, all kinds of specials and guest appearances and never so much as changes a magazine. Anybody causing that much carnage is going to be facing a government task force (Bolan did, by his third novel), let alone a superhero posse that has had enough. To sum up: UUUuuggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, completely agreed, and I'll go one further.. What do Punisher fans GET out of the character? Comics are wish fulfillment. Superman fans want to be a good man who helps people. Punisher fans want to be - what? - angry, violent murderers? THAT'S their self-empowerment daydream? (Side-Note: Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX is as good as anything Marvel has ever published, although it made the Punisher a study in the cross-section between mental illness and trauma.)
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