Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 26, 2019 22:33:48 GMT -5
So with the movie and all, the current (Carol Danvers) Ms. Marvel has almost completely eclipsed the '60s Marvel Captain Marvel in fan/public consciousness.
So how often has this type of thing happened? A spin-off character becomes more popular than their spin-off-ees? How unprecedented is this?
I've made a list:
Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr., Hoppy the Marvel Bunny:
Not more popular, but as far as I know these were the first spin-off characters to hold their own feature comics, not just spin-offs in anthologies. (Side question: Who was the first spin-off in an anthology to get their own feature? Robin in Star Spangled came pretty late in the game.)
It is sad that Fat Billy and Hill Billy never got their own book. Uncle Marvel was doubly robbed.
Black Canary, Streak the Wonder Dog:
Not copycat characters, but they debuted in another heroes strip and took it over. Cei-U! I can understand why Johnny Thunder was replaced by the Black Canary (who was a villain in her first appearance!) but it really, really sucks for poor Alan Scott to get his comic taken from him by his dog.
Side Question 1: Didn't one of the Kid Gangs who were paired with a superhero take over the title from that superhero? I forget, and cursory googling isn't helping.
The Silver Age Flash, Green Lantern, Atom, Human Torch...
More character revamps than spin-offs since they never appeared in the Golden Age stories. Also, only the Flash didn't make major changes to the tone of the feature. (The GA and SA Green Lantern had similar powers, but the storytelling genre was completely changed from mystical fantasy to science fiction.)
Ted Kord
I'm reading the Ditko Blue Beetle stories for the first time. Great stuff. The disappearance of the original Dan Garrett Blue Beetle is a major plot point, so this wasn't a different continuity revamp like the SA legacy characters listed above. This might be the closest to the Ms. Marvel situation of anyone listed... Ted is a new hero character who has the same name as the original and exists in the same milleu. Different powers, though.
The New X-Men and New Teen Titans
Definitely the # 1 and # 2 example of a revamped title being far more popular than the original version.
Robin 2, 3, 4, 5, 6etc.
A weird one. I'm not sure any of the new Robins have eclipsed Dick Grayson in popularity, although I remember Robin 3 (Tim Drake) being a HUGE deal for a split second circa 1991. I think Nightwing was usually more popular than Robin. (Note: I still think Dick Grayson will become Robin again at some point.)
Wally West, Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke
I think that, with his appearance in the Justice League cartoon, Wally was definitely more popular than Barry for a good long while... ten years ago I would say that his situation was exactly the same as Carol Danvers' today. He was a proper spin-off character, having debuted in the Silver Age Flash comics and having the same powers as his mentor.
Kyle Rayner being a big deal when he was introduced as well. There were A LOT of these replacement characters in the '90s and '00s.... Aquaman, the Atom, Doctor Fate, Doctor Mid-Nite, Blue Beetle... I'm sure I'm missing several dozen. Superman and Batman were replaced for a little while as part of a story about why only Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne CAN be Superman and Batman. Also there were a new Supergirl and Superboy after the originals got Byrnewiped from continuity post Crisis.
Side question 2: I know Carol Davners debuted in Captain Marvel, but has Mar-Vell ever interacted with super-powered Carol Danvers? Also were She-Hulk, Spider-Woman and Ms. Marvel supposed to be a mini-imprint of female led super-books, like Night Nurse the Cat and Shanna a few years back? Jessica Drew, Jennifer Walters and Carol all got their own books about the same time.
War Machine, US Agent, Thunderstrike, Amadeus Cho, Otto Octavius, Bucky Barnes/Sam Wilson,
Marvel does the legacy character bit as well, but I rarely get a sense that the original was gone for good. Captain America especially gets replaced all the damn time. I think we are on Captain America XVIII now. For those of you not reading current comics, the Falcon was Cap and Dr, Octopus was Spider-Man for a while. Yep.
Danny Ketch, Flash Thompson Venom
Marvel legacy characters that I think were intended to permanently replace the originals. Didn't happen, didn't last.
Baron Zemo and the villains..
There have been 70,000,0000 gazillion legacy villains. Baron Zemo2/Phoenix is the only one I can think of who was more popular than the original, and that was because the original only lasted for less than a dozen issues. There have to have been more. (Side question 3: What other legacy villains were more popular than the first version? I don't think Harry Osborne or the new Venoms ever quiiiiite made it.)
EDIT: MOONSTONE! (Speaking of Thunderbolts)
So, really, the number of spin-off superhero characters who had the same background and powers as the original version but proved more popular over time is really, really, really small. Good on you, Captain Marvel # 5. Or was it 6? 7?
So let's talk about Ms./Captain Marvel, and spin-off and legacy characters who WERE or SHOULD HAVE been more popular than the original. Any huge major examples I missed?
So how often has this type of thing happened? A spin-off character becomes more popular than their spin-off-ees? How unprecedented is this?
I've made a list:
Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr., Hoppy the Marvel Bunny:
Not more popular, but as far as I know these were the first spin-off characters to hold their own feature comics, not just spin-offs in anthologies. (Side question: Who was the first spin-off in an anthology to get their own feature? Robin in Star Spangled came pretty late in the game.)
It is sad that Fat Billy and Hill Billy never got their own book. Uncle Marvel was doubly robbed.
Black Canary, Streak the Wonder Dog:
Not copycat characters, but they debuted in another heroes strip and took it over. Cei-U! I can understand why Johnny Thunder was replaced by the Black Canary (who was a villain in her first appearance!) but it really, really sucks for poor Alan Scott to get his comic taken from him by his dog.
Side Question 1: Didn't one of the Kid Gangs who were paired with a superhero take over the title from that superhero? I forget, and cursory googling isn't helping.
The Silver Age Flash, Green Lantern, Atom, Human Torch...
More character revamps than spin-offs since they never appeared in the Golden Age stories. Also, only the Flash didn't make major changes to the tone of the feature. (The GA and SA Green Lantern had similar powers, but the storytelling genre was completely changed from mystical fantasy to science fiction.)
Ted Kord
I'm reading the Ditko Blue Beetle stories for the first time. Great stuff. The disappearance of the original Dan Garrett Blue Beetle is a major plot point, so this wasn't a different continuity revamp like the SA legacy characters listed above. This might be the closest to the Ms. Marvel situation of anyone listed... Ted is a new hero character who has the same name as the original and exists in the same milleu. Different powers, though.
The New X-Men and New Teen Titans
Definitely the # 1 and # 2 example of a revamped title being far more popular than the original version.
Robin 2, 3, 4, 5, 6etc.
A weird one. I'm not sure any of the new Robins have eclipsed Dick Grayson in popularity, although I remember Robin 3 (Tim Drake) being a HUGE deal for a split second circa 1991. I think Nightwing was usually more popular than Robin. (Note: I still think Dick Grayson will become Robin again at some point.)
Wally West, Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke
I think that, with his appearance in the Justice League cartoon, Wally was definitely more popular than Barry for a good long while... ten years ago I would say that his situation was exactly the same as Carol Danvers' today. He was a proper spin-off character, having debuted in the Silver Age Flash comics and having the same powers as his mentor.
Kyle Rayner being a big deal when he was introduced as well. There were A LOT of these replacement characters in the '90s and '00s.... Aquaman, the Atom, Doctor Fate, Doctor Mid-Nite, Blue Beetle... I'm sure I'm missing several dozen. Superman and Batman were replaced for a little while as part of a story about why only Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne CAN be Superman and Batman. Also there were a new Supergirl and Superboy after the originals got Byrnewiped from continuity post Crisis.
Side question 2: I know Carol Davners debuted in Captain Marvel, but has Mar-Vell ever interacted with super-powered Carol Danvers? Also were She-Hulk, Spider-Woman and Ms. Marvel supposed to be a mini-imprint of female led super-books, like Night Nurse the Cat and Shanna a few years back? Jessica Drew, Jennifer Walters and Carol all got their own books about the same time.
War Machine, US Agent, Thunderstrike, Amadeus Cho, Otto Octavius, Bucky Barnes/Sam Wilson,
Marvel does the legacy character bit as well, but I rarely get a sense that the original was gone for good. Captain America especially gets replaced all the damn time. I think we are on Captain America XVIII now. For those of you not reading current comics, the Falcon was Cap and Dr, Octopus was Spider-Man for a while. Yep.
Danny Ketch, Flash Thompson Venom
Marvel legacy characters that I think were intended to permanently replace the originals. Didn't happen, didn't last.
Baron Zemo and the villains..
There have been 70,000,0000 gazillion legacy villains. Baron Zemo2/Phoenix is the only one I can think of who was more popular than the original, and that was because the original only lasted for less than a dozen issues. There have to have been more. (Side question 3: What other legacy villains were more popular than the first version? I don't think Harry Osborne or the new Venoms ever quiiiiite made it.)
EDIT: MOONSTONE! (Speaking of Thunderbolts)
So, really, the number of spin-off superhero characters who had the same background and powers as the original version but proved more popular over time is really, really, really small. Good on you, Captain Marvel # 5. Or was it 6? 7?
So let's talk about Ms./Captain Marvel, and spin-off and legacy characters who WERE or SHOULD HAVE been more popular than the original. Any huge major examples I missed?
I had a big gap from when she was Binary and there was a black lady Captain Marvel, to seeing one issue of Ms. M fighting huge numbers of super-skrulls in NYC solo and then there was a new Ms.M. So... what became of Monica Rambeau?
