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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 27, 2018 7:06:15 GMT -5
(...) His Blackhawk series was set in WW2, yet shows Blackhawk being interrogated by HUAC, about his time in Spain, during the Civil War, and shown on television! (...) Yeah, that was one of the several things I found frustrating about that series - but the art is so nice...
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Post by MDG on Aug 27, 2018 8:49:06 GMT -5
I picked up Black Kiss as it came out, but, like you, found it frustrating to get through. Another thing was the $1.25 price tag for 10 pages of story. I picked up a collected edition later on (for something like $4) and it read better that way, but have my usual disappointment when something is set up as a "real" story and supernatural elements are inserted later on.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 27, 2018 9:34:37 GMT -5
(...) His Blackhawk series was set in WW2, yet shows Blackhawk being interrogated by HUAC, about his time in Spain, during the Civil War, and shown on television! (...) Yeah, that was one of the several things I found frustrating about that series - but the art is so nice... To be fair, the HUAC was formed in 1938. It didn't really start investigating the American Communist Party until '46, but it's not outside the bounds of reason it could have done a one-off investigation during the war. And in a world with cosmic rods and ninth metal is it that far-fetched that television developed a bit earlier?
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 27, 2018 12:27:08 GMT -5
Yeah, that was one of the several things I found frustrating about that series - but the art is so nice... To be fair, the HUAC was formed in 1938. It didn't really start investigating the American Communist Party until '46, but it's not outside the bounds of reason it could have done a one-off investigation during the war. And in a world with cosmic rods and ninth metal is it that far-fetched that television developed a bit earlier? Problem is, Chaykin doesn't make it clear that we are still in the war, until after the HUAC scenes, and the fact that they are televised leads you to believe it is the post-war era. There were tv broadcasts before the war; but, the war pretty much interrupted things, for the medium, and high profile, televised hearings were not happening in 1942. Radio, yes. I have nothing to back it up; but, my inclination is that Chaykin originally intended this to be set after the war, then either changed his mind or DC asked for a wartime setting. Marty Pasko picked up those threads and applied it to the post-war era, adding in all of the CIA dirty dealings that went on (manipulation of the Italian election, Guatemala coup, Iran coup, etc, etc). Quite frankly, I thought Mike Grell had a better hook with things with his Action Comics Weekly, where he turned Blackhawk into Steve Canyon, though I thought Pasko and Rick Burchett had several really good stories in their short regular Blackhawk series. Like Edo, the art was what kept me buying the mini, after wondering what the heck was going on, in the first issue. Twilight was another that was a mess, narratively, and the succession of things kind of soured me on Chaykin's writing, until he started working in comics again, after being in Hollywood. It seemed to have helped him work out some of his bad impulses. I read an interview with Chaykin (I believe it was in The Comics Journal), where he discussed his writing technique, which involved writing scenes on index cards, them mixing them up to develop his narrative. I think that was part of his problem as his stories were a bit more fixated on the big scene, but not necessarily the overall narrative structure. After Hollywood, he seemed to be spending more time on the structure and his stories flowed better. Chaykin also spoke (in The Art of Howard Chaykin) about his substance abuse problems and I suspect that was a contributing factor in this era. I also think there is a sort of self-loathing in much of his work and there certainly was in his descriptions of his adolescence and he has always been dismissive of his early work. I kind of feel that quality is inherent in his crime works (which is one of the traits of that genre of fiction) and why this comic feels more like pure porn than erotica.
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Post by MDG on Aug 27, 2018 12:53:58 GMT -5
I listened to a recent podcast interview with Chaykin and, even though I think the hosts just walked up to him at a con and asked if they could talk to him, he was very open and cordial. (He also took me to task for something I said in some Facebook group but, even though I thought I was right, I wasn't going to mix it up with him.)
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 27, 2018 13:37:22 GMT -5
Twilight. Oh, man. I just read that for the first time fairly recently. Another case of beautiful art, by Garcia Lopez (PBHN), coupled with a narrative mess, as you so aptly put it. So yeah, that's two things by Chaykin from that period that I don't like as much as his other output, both earlier and later. MDG, which podcast is that? I'd be interested in hearing that interview.
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Post by MDG on Aug 27, 2018 15:15:43 GMT -5
MDG , which podcast is that? I'd be interested in hearing that interview. Radio Free Krypton from July 5
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 27, 2018 17:31:37 GMT -5
Cool, thanks.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 27, 2018 23:09:45 GMT -5
I've seen a couple of interviews with Chaykin and some footage from at least one Con panel; in the right setting, he is cordial and seems to have mellowed; yet, he doesn't mince words when he critiques his own work or what he feels is underserved praise fr other things. I remember some quotes from a couple of years ago, about European comics, and he was rather dismissive, saying we get the better stuff; but, they churn out as much junk (though with more colorful metaphors). There is a great deal of truth in that, though I think the European publishing style is far more professional, better serves the readership and also reaches more of a mainstream audience, per capita, than the US.
I know in recent years he has done artist boot camps, for Marvel, helping to teach skills and professionalism to some of their young talent. He got his experiences in that from Gil Kane, Wally Wood, and Neal Adams. He made Kane sound pretty tough on him; but, he was pretty hard on his younger self. It's a good idea, as Chaykin brings a ton of experience from comics and commercial art and is someone who was known for, generally, meeting deadlines, with a higher level of quality, and an ability to deliver interesting stories. He is also one of the guys who adapted to the times and new technology, which gave him a leg up on many of his contemporaries. In many ways, he is kind of like a comic book artist version of Bowie: lot of attitude, lot of confidence in his skills, lot of experimentation, changes with the mood of the time frame. He even had substance problems, like Bowie. He just didn't have as many wild looks as Bowie, or as many groupies.
Getting back to Black Kiss, I still think it is an important work in his career, and the latter stages make things clearer; but, that first quarter to a third of the story can really keep you reeling. It does read better in collected form, when you aren't trying to remember what happened last issue and who everyone is. The recap, in issue 3, from Lou Stathis, helped quite a bit. It actually reads better, a second time through. I do think color would have helped with some things, like keying in when you are reading Dagmar's scenes and Bev's, given the similar appearance. That could get rather confusing. A color cue for the background or something similar would have helped.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 29, 2018 6:53:54 GMT -5
Just listened to the interview yesterday; tonally and thematically, it's rather similar to an interview with Chaykin in the Virtual Memories podcast from almost exactly a year earlier - although this one is much longer and much more in depth.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 30, 2018 14:37:58 GMT -5
So, all that is left is to wrap up things, with some of the lesser known Vortex titles. I'll be up front; I haven't seen these titles, let alone read them. There isn't much info out there about them; however, there are some pedigrees involved, which certainly put them into the "worth a look" category. Badlands is from Steven Grant, who is a known quality, with his own Whisper, the Punisher limited series that launched the character to superstardom, his infamous conclusion to Omega the Unknown (in Defenders), his run on X, at Dark Horse, and other books. Art is by Vince Giarrano, who wouldn't make a huge splash in comics; but, became a noted fine artist, as a painter. This is a crime story, which revolves around the Kennedy Assassination. It was begun at Vortex, and was completed at Dark Horse, who also collected it. It features ex-con Conrad "Connie" Bremen, who gets caught up in a world of the Mafia, the FBI, CIA and the daughter of a Texas millionaire. Good Reads has some reviews of the collected edition.Bloodlines was from Rob Walton and began life at Aircel. The series features an ongoing battle between Heaven and Hel, with a woman named Deborah, who is Heaven's champion. Atomic Avenue has a description here. Sounds interesting and the cover art looks good; there is some more info here.Doc Chaos was actually a British comic, written by David Thorpe and drawn by Phil Elliott. Vortex republished them, with Rian Hughes covers, which thorpe loved. David Thorpe isn't a name you may immediately recognize; but, he was an editor and writer for Marvel UK and, along with Paul neary and Alan Davis, is responsible for revamping Captain Britain into the version that most know, on this side of the pond. he had the dubious distinction of preceding Alan Moore's legendary work on the series; but, he created many of the characters and concepts that Moore used in his storylines. Doc Chaos was also commissioned for a tv series, by LimeHouse Productions; but, I can't find any record that it was actually produced. You can get a bit more info from Thorpe's own website. It sounds pretty weird, in the British tradition. Based on Captain Britain, alone, I'd say it's worth a glance. Kaptain Keen & Kompany was a humor series, from Bill White and Gary Fields. White was a Kubert School graduate, coming out of their animation program (his mentor was former Disney animator Milt Neil). He did some work for DC, Marvel, Archie and Harvey and also worked as an animator for Spumco (Ren & Stimpy), Disney and DIC (Inspector Gadget). he also worked extensively in advertising and publishing, as well as corporate gigs, doing caricatures. He died in 2012. I've only seen house ads for the series; but, it had a good review in the Slings and Arrows Comic Guide. It features Kaptain Keen, a parody of the square jawed her, with a sidekick, Moose Boy, who does not speak. The comic also features the cigar chomping, sarcastic pig, Superswine. An Amazon listing, quoting Slings And Arrows describes it as grin-inducing, if not quite laugh out loud. I couldn't find out much about this one, other than it is Ken Steacy, who is always good. Not much detail about it; but, creator Fiona Smyth was part of the alternative comics scene and had her own strip, Cheez, in Exclaim! magazine. Here's a sample of her style... Smyth was from Montreal and moved to Toronto, where she became art of the mini-comic/Underground/alternative scene, that included people like Seth and Chester Brown. She would also produce work for Drawn & Quarterly. Paradax is two Daxes. (CHIRP*CHIRP*) Thank you, enjoy the veal! Actually it is a (fittingly) 2 issue comic from Peter Milligan and Brendon McCarthy. It features a beer-swilling New York cabbie, who finds a super-suit, left in the back seat of his cab. It actually began at Eclipse, in the comic Strange Days. Milligan and McCarthy do great work, though this is adult stuff. This is an Underground/alternative anthology from Vortex. Not much info about it. Transit was Ted McKeever's first work. It features a graffiti artist, Spud, who stumbles into a corrupt scheme run by Boss Traun, the power broker of the city, and his puppet, the Reverend Grisn. Grisn is a candidate for mayor and Spud witnesses the truth about him and is forced to go on the run, hiding with a blind beggar and an ex-wrestler. Also in the story, con Johnny Bones is being released, but finds himself pulled into things by crime boss Rex Interior. The series lasted 5 issues, though more were intended. it was later collected as part of the Image-published Ted McKeever Library, with a concluding chapter. Vortex's last real hurrah was the surprisingly successful NASCAR-related line of comics. Bill Marks was a racing fan and even tried his hand at it. Vortex even sponsored the NASCAR Rookie Of The Year award, as part of their Grand National series of races, in 1991 and 92 (won by future superstar Jeff Gordon, on 91). At the time the series debuted, I was stationed in Charleston, SC, in the US Navy. This was deep in NASCAR country and the UPS driver, who delivered to my LCS (Final Frontier, long gone) used to buy the new issue from them, after they unpacked the shipment (only comic he bought). It was mostly bought by NASCAR fans, who were not comic fans, and was one of the earliest tie-in merchandising products available for NASCAR (that didn't involve tobacco products). As such, they experienced a popularity similar to the early Marvel Star Wars comics, where there was so little merchandise out there when the movie hit, that fans snapped it up, even if they didn't regularly read comics. However, as it was a licensed title, the revenues were shared with NASCAR, who got a big cut. Vortex began in the early days of the indie boom in comics and benefitted from the black & white boom, as well as the critical attention lavished on Mister X. They had great ties to young talent, especially in the Toronto area, which was the cultural center for much of Canada's arts and culture, as the country's biggest city. However, they never had a huge commercial smash and their fortunes rose and fell with the industry. The Black & White Boom went bust and Marvel and DC crowded the indies off the shelves, by the 90s, with tons of products and gimmicks. Vortex got its last bits of attention for Black Kiss, which due to the graphic adult nature, was never a big success, and the NASCAR comics, which were successful more on a regional basis. Vortex ended up closing shop in 1994, which is probably just as well, as things were about to really go south for the industry and, especially, the independents. Their legacy is one of a rather high standard of quality and they help launch the comics careers of Dean Motter (well, advance, more than launch), Ty Templeton, Ted McKeever, Chester Brown, Seth, Fiona Smyth and showcase materials from some established mainstream names, like Steve Grant and Howard Chaykin. They maintained a Canadian sensibility and became a major foundation for future success for companies like Drawn & Quarterly.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 30, 2018 14:58:35 GMT -5
Next up, we will travel to Europe, to discuss some graphic novels that were brought to these shores, via Spanish publisher Catalan Communications. Come on back for discussions of Matthias Schultheiss, Enki Bilal, Daniel Torres, Igort, Magnus, Manara, Juan Giminez, Vittorio Giardino, Alex Varenne, Jose Munoz, Jordi Bernet, Loustal, Corben, Frank Thorne, Pepe Moreno, Francois Boucq and Guido Crepax. You want adult comics? These are truly adult; not just sexual, but in adult themes, adult relationships and with a maturity in the narrative, as well as the art. See some of the real masters of European comics in the 70s and 80s (and very early 90s).
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Post by MDG on Aug 30, 2018 15:58:47 GMT -5
So, all that is left is to wrap up things, with some of the lesser known Vortex titles. I'll be up front; I haven't seen these titles, let alone read them. There isn't much info out there about them; however, there are some pedigrees involved, which certainly put them into the "worth a look" category. Badlands is from Steven Grant, who is a known quality, with his own Whisper, the Punisher limited series that launched the character to superstardom, his infamous conclusion to Omega the Unknown (in Defenders), his run on X, at Dark Horse, and other books. Art is by Vince Giarrano, who wouldn't make a huge splash in comics; but, became a noted fine artist, as a painter. This is a crime story, which revolves around the Kennedy Assassination. It was begun at Vortex, and was completed at Dark Horse, who also collected it. It features ex-con Conrad "Connie" Bremen, who gets caught up in a world of the Mafia, the FBI, CIA and the daughter of a Texas millionaire. Good Reads has some reviews of the collected edition. I got the first issue or two of Badlands out of a 50-cent (more or less) bin and liked it enough to pick up the collected edition (IIRC) when I saw it on sale in the Bud Plant catalog. A good, self-contained story. I saw him at a show and, for some reason, asked him to draw Superman and he did a very nice job. Looking him up now, it turns out he's a pretty effin' excellent painter these days. I want to say Pacific or Eclipse put out some issues of Paradax--I liked the art but never really connected with the character/story.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 30, 2018 17:16:57 GMT -5
As I noted, Paradax appeared earlier in Milligan and McCarthy's Strange Days, at Eclipse. Still waiting for that motion picture!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 18:16:57 GMT -5
codystarbuck -- I just got back from my friend house and he has a bunch of Patty Cake; and I was glancing and briefly reading this book and I really enjoyed the story and it's has a delightful feel of Calvin of Hobbes and among other things as well and he has about dozen or more of these books. I'm going to start reading these books fairly soon.
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