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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 21, 2019 9:27:34 GMT -5
"Monkey see, monkey do" can be a mindset in humans (some are not as evolved as they think they are). "Oh, look at that artist being bashed, I'm going to jump on that bandwagon." That doesn't apply to everyone, of course. I mean, look at a forum like this. Someone like Shaxper is going through various Superman titles - and his posts, like others, are balanced. I've found people here to be that way. I'm a John Byrne fan, but I know Shaxper has criticised some aspects of Byrne's Superman run. And that's fine. He's been balanced and articulate. But if he had just kept posting "Byrne sucks!" or something, I'd think it was an agenda, a bandwagon, a case of "Monkey see, monkey do!" It can be fashionable and trendy for some to crap all over something. Non-wrestling fans won't get this, but it became very fashionable to boo John Cena. Why? I wish I knew. It seemed like one person did it at times - and the rest followed. If asked, could they sincerely and honestly answer why they were booing? Or was it a bandwagon? I think the way to ascertain a person's intent is to read or listen to what they are saying. A person who articulates something well is to be trusted, whether it's Shaxper's reviews or Confessor's opinion on a particular Spider-Man issue. But the "You suck!" brigade, who seem to be most vocal, do seem to enjoy crapping on things not for thoughtful reasons, but because they've barely evolved from the apes/monkeys that fling crap in cages. I think there's a couple things at play here. Stuff like booing Cena, alot of that has to do with people wanting to see someone else succeed. I mean, everyone love an underdog, right? The problem with that underdog is once they DO succeed, they're not the underdog anymore. Why do you think everyone outside New England hates the Patriots? Too much success (and don't start about the cheating nonsense. The St. Louis Cardinals have people IN JAIL for cheating and no one cares). Cena fell into that as well. at first, he was a unique personality that people could root for. Then he became his generation's Hulk Hogan, with the make a wish trips, the five moves of doom, and the rest, and the 'marks' turned on him. It happens all the time. While there is, to some extent, a factor of 'people hate this so I should, too' I don't think poster here do that... everyone has their favorites, of course, and we often have good discussions about them, but I don't think we get alot of bandwagon love/hatred here. Do people follow recommendations? Sure. Might that be more hesitant to get something a people whose opinions they trust hated? Sure. But that's the point of this forum, really
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 9:55:00 GMT -5
Well, as I stated, none of what I said applied to anyone here as I think they are a discerning bunch.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 21, 2019 10:54:37 GMT -5
My original post was my attempt to bring a spotlight to the Alan Moore comments towards comic book movies, and not really towards Liefeld. It struck me more that Liefeld looked like he was disillusioned by Moores bitterness for the comic genre. I don't go out looking for stuff about writers/artists but everything I've heard second hand about him or from Alan Moore himself always seems to comes off as some emo kid. It mostly depends on the interviews you watch or read. Mostly he's a super funny guy. He just really doesn't give two shits about his old comics work and really and truly doesn't care about what is being done with it by people who aren't 1/10 as talented. And it comes across because that is all anyone asks him about and that has to get damn old. If he's talking about his new stuff or old stuff that he's interested in like The Beano he's a delight. It's like musicians being constantly asked about their music from 30 + years ago. What more is there to say?
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Post by impulse on Nov 21, 2019 11:14:24 GMT -5
I don't go out looking for stuff about writers/artists but everything I've heard second hand about him or from Alan Moore himself always seems to comes off as some emo kid. It mostly depends on the interviews you watch or read. Mostly he's a super funny guy. He just really doesn't give two shits about his old comics work and really and truly doesn't care about what is being done with it by people who aren't 1/10 as talented. And it comes across because that is all anyone asks him about and that has to get damn old. If he's talking about his new stuff or old stuff that he's interested in like The Beano he's a delight. It's like musicians being constantly asked about their music from 30 + years ago. What more is there to say? It's a miracle Dave Mustaine hasn't punched a reporter in the face for asking him about being kicked out of Metallica 35 years ago for the 34094837589027590th time...
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 21, 2019 12:55:30 GMT -5
I don't go out looking for stuff about writers/artists but everything I've heard second hand about him or from Alan Moore himself always seems to comes off as some emo kid. It mostly depends on the interviews you watch or read. Mostly he's a super funny guy. He just really doesn't give two shits about his old comics work and really and truly doesn't care about what is being done with it by people who aren't 1/10 as talented. And it comes across because that is all anyone asks him about and that has to get damn old. If he's talking about his new stuff or old stuff that he's interested in like The Beano he's a delight. It's like musicians being constantly asked about their music from 30 + years ago. What more is there to say? That being the case then I can get why he's "grumpy" about things. That could become annoying quickly.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 21, 2019 13:05:13 GMT -5
I don't go out looking for stuff about writers/artists but everything I've heard second hand about him or from Alan Moore himself always seems to comes off as some emo kid. It mostly depends on the interviews you watch or read. Mostly he's a super funny guy. He just really doesn't give two shits about his old comics work and really and truly doesn't care about what is being done with it by people who aren't 1/10 as talented. And it comes across because that is all anyone asks him about and that has to get damn old. If he's talking about his new stuff or old stuff that he's interested in like The Beano he's a delight. It's like musicians being constantly asked about their music from 30 + years ago. What more is there to say? This is true. A few years ago, he was one of the panelists in an episode of the Infinite Monkey Cage. He came across as very pleasant and funny.
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Post by impulse on Nov 21, 2019 13:27:38 GMT -5
Granted, I have not followed him very closely, so I can only base this on the general impression I have gotten from media. He also seems to be more of one of those "pure artist" types where the artistic aspect as more heavily weighted than ego, finances, fame, etc, and I think a lot of people don't know how to respond to that.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 21, 2019 13:34:29 GMT -5
Granted, I have not followed him very closely, so I can only base this on the general impression I have gotten from media. He also seems to be more of one of those "pure artist" types where the artistic aspect as more heavily weighted than ego, finances, fame, etc, and I think a lot of people don't know how to respond to that. He is. While he's probably not hurting for money, he gave whatever money he was due for the Watchmen movie to Dave Gibbons. So he's, at this point, more concerned about integrity than money. He's also incredibly parochial, barely ever leaving Northhampton at this point. Which I'm sure people find weird.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 21, 2019 14:28:05 GMT -5
Brilliant Twitter thread by Alan Moore's daughter Leah about her Dad and the effect that the comic industry had on his love of comics.
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 21, 2019 23:07:11 GMT -5
It's strange, I don't understand fans or other artists wanting to insert themselves in Alan Moore's feelings about past or present dealings with various companies. It doesn't really involve most other people, does it? I'm definitely missing some information somewhere. On the other paw, I have read a few over-the-top claims about Alan Moore I either also don't understand... stuff about the industry owing it's existence to his selfless toil over many decades, like he is Jack Kirby or ?, or that those 1963 books which I thought were a fun but not entirely full of love, are in fact a huge love letter for superhero comics. Oh... whatever! I know what large companies and corporations are often enough like, the entirely uncreative creatures that can take up root in them, and as I have written I will side with the actual creator 999 times out of a thousand when it comes down to that; you don't have to exaggerate to get support I don't think. Those Swamp Thing stories would be enough reason for me. If he hates a form and it was caused by someone else, they have the 'splaining to do. I thought he had gone in the direction of supposedly adult serious fiction superhero comics with genuine negative deconstructive and unsustainable anarchist zeal on The Killing Joke in terms of Batgirl, but I don't have a quarrel with Watchmen or 1963 as intelligent entertainment if people are not going to insist these are up there with Dostoevsky et al. You write comic books for comic book readers obviously, which is not a pout down in any way, but don't be disappointed if they are not conversant in Proust or even Strunk & White's... you know where to find people who are, and i really don't know that he was disappointed by any of that or trying to become some sort of capital A Artiste saviour-god-martyr of super character comic books. It all seems rather overwrought for a such a humble yet accessible form. As he delivers the goods there is no need for pretentions and inflated claims against empty boxes in a skyscraper you wouldn't think.
Well, back to the twenty year old Marvel comics or goodies vs. baddies which I might've continued to miss out on. I'm glad I don't know how one of the editors may've punched a puppy when nobody was looking!
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Post by impulse on Nov 22, 2019 10:38:28 GMT -5
Eh, people enjoy drama and gossiping about celebrities of any stature. I'm not sure why, but it's universal.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 23, 2019 2:44:09 GMT -5
Alan Moore became the story by commenting about the current superhero movies. I don't know if he loved comics like we did but became burned out by the corporate stuff.
Oh well, we'll always have Paris.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 23, 2019 6:10:26 GMT -5
I don't go out looking for stuff about writers/artists but everything I've heard second hand about him or from Alan Moore himself always seems to comes off as some emo kid. It mostly depends on the interviews you watch or read. Mostly he's a super funny guy. He just really doesn't give two shits about his old comics work and really and truly doesn't care about what is being done with it by people who aren't 1/10 as talented. And it comes across because that is all anyone asks him about and that has to get damn old. If he's talking about his new stuff or old stuff that he's interested in like The Beano he's a delight. It's like musicians being constantly asked about their music from 30 + years ago. What more is there to say? That's not the sense I get. I've read a bunch of interviews and I think Moore's response to the mainstream comics industry is genuine anger - Like he's mad at DC (completely fair!) but he's also NOT SPEAKING to Dave Gibbons because of the Watchmen movie, right? He's constantly asked about it because it seems fairly easy to get him riled up and he'll come up with nerd clickbaity quotables. "Superheroes are abominations."
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Post by Farrar on Nov 23, 2019 11:42:28 GMT -5
It's kind of sleazy to release a new comic and say that it has a variant cover by John Buscema who's been dead for over ten years. There I said it. I prefer the original, from 1974's Marvel Treasury Edition #3. There, I said it. (I'm not fan of glossy.) What we'll see for Thor #1 in January, as a wraparound cover.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 23, 2019 13:11:37 GMT -5
I’m ashamed to say that that Buscema cover looks good and I might get it second hand, despite my griping. I guess mrp is right after all.
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