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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 28, 2019 10:50:56 GMT -5
Although there's no one issue you can point to and say "It starts here" (editor Julius Schwartz had been gradually shifting away from the camp era for some time), most folks consider the departure of Dick "Robin" Grayson for college in Batman #217 as the beginning of Bronze Age Batman, with Detective #394 following immediately after. Cei-U! I summon the apt approximation!
Had that been the first time that Robin left crime fighting with Batman for an extended period of time? Yes.
Cei-U! I summon the short 'n' sweet reply!
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 28, 2019 11:02:12 GMT -5
Although there's no one issue you can point to and say "It starts here" (editor Julius Schwartz had been gradually shifting away from the camp era for some time), most folks consider the departure of Dick "Robin" Grayson for college in Batman #217 as the beginning of Bronze Age Batman, with Detective #394 following immediately after.
Cei-U! I summon the apt approximation!
I agree--and I'm not sure of the exact timeline of when things happened, but other changes were signaled by Robbins coming on as a writer and the end of using art by "Bob Kane." The last issues to carry the "Bob Kane" signature are Batman #202 and Detective #376, both dated June 1968. Robbins' first scripts run in Batman #204 and Detective #378, both dated August '68.
Cei-U! I summon the lowdown!
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 28, 2019 12:06:51 GMT -5
The very first time Neal Adams drew Batman was on the cover of Brave and Bold 75 (released October 1967). Even glancing at an ad for this comic sent a jolt down my spine; this was a shockingly different visualization of Batman... Adams also drew the cover of B and B 76, which was a bit more typical, though still different. My guess is that these issues of B and B showed an uptick in sales, because after the next two issues, with more conventional covers by Andru/Esposito and Bob Brown, Murray Boltinoff used Adams as his cover artist for 11 of the next 15 issues. Adams also pencilled nine of those issues. As a reader, it was so obvious to me that those Adams-drawn issues of B and B were meant to if not restore Batman's "creature of the night" persona, at least to honor it, and I loved it! Other readers agreed, judging by the letters pages. In #82, Joe Rusnak writes that "Adams is the only person who can make Batman look like a bat-man." "That's the idea, buddy," was editor Boltinoff's response. "In the past two issues, Batman has been handled better than he has for the past 25 years," wrote Gordon Flagg, Jr. "Not since the early 40s has there been anything to compare with Bob Haney's stories and Neal Adams' art," he goes on." Both were frequent LOC'ers, btw. It was clear that the Batman of B and B was not quite the same as the one appearing over in Batman and Detective. Adams inked the cover of Detective 370 (released October 1967) over Infantino pencils and drew the cover of Batman 200 (released February 1968), which admittedly looked like Adams trying to do the New Look. Overall, however, the full-on Adams take on Batman was as stunning a change from the nearly four years and 60+ covers drawn and/ or designed by Infantino as Infantino’s New Look had been. It was clear now that the look of Batman was changing. Infantino did a few more covers for Detective, but essentially, Carmine’s New Look was over. Irv Novick became the go-to Batman cover artist and penciller, and he did his best (aided -- at times -- by frequent Adams inker Dick Giordano) to capture the darkness, the batlike silhouettes and poses and the menace that Adams had re-established for Batman. It really seems as if this was a perfect storm; DC was giving Gardner Fox and some of his peers the heave-ho over their demands for health insurance; Adams had essentially reinvented Batman on the covers and pages of a second-tier comic; other newcomers like O’Neil and Dick Giordano were establishing themselves; and DC had extricated itself from the contract that demanded Bob Kane’s style be imitated and his name be branded on every Batman story. Like so many other changes that happened back then in comics, this one was gradual, even sporadic. The Batman in World’s Finest or JLA didn’t always square with the Batman in Detective and Batman. Though there was a clear difference between the last days of the New Look and the dawn of the Adams-Novick period, it was not officially “introduced.”
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 12:17:57 GMT -5
When the 1987 Justice League comic started, which was of course after COIE, I did read how Superman and Wonder Woman were considered a no-no for the new League.
But were Flash, Green Lantern and Aquaman also "banned" from being part of the then-new League?
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 28, 2019 14:21:48 GMT -5
When the 1987 Justice League comic started, which was of course after COIE, I did read how Superman and Wonder Woman were considered a no-no for the new League. But were Flash, Green Lantern and Aquaman also "banned" from being part of the then-new League? Not so much banned as busy elsewhere. Flash was launching a new series and was left alone. Plus, Wally had more connections with the Titans, who were still going strong. Nobody seemed to want to touch Aquaman and Green Lantern was convoluted. Guy Gardner was there to provide some Green Lantern connection and because they had been spending a lot of time building Guy up. Superman was being relaunched and they wanted to keep him away from team books, for a bit, to let Byrne do his thing. Action Comics became a team-up book; so, he got to do the team thing there. Wonder Woman was being completely introduced; so, there was a lot of establishing to be done. When they reconfigured the history of the JLA, they could still link Superman to it, as Man of Steel was set in the past; but, by setting Wonder Woman's origin in the present, they hamstrung themselves. That led to Black Canary being slotted into her place, while Fury and Miss America were used to cover for her in the JSA. People forget; but, the JLA had been kind of toxic, by the end of the Detroit era. The ending of that group was pretty much a house cleaning. Legend acted to help establish a new Justice League (and Suicide Squad) and the new Justice League was kind of a risky bet. However, they hit it out of the park and it was a big hit, far bigger than the JLA had been, in a long time. It also let them showcase the Charlton characters, to better integrate them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 14:52:30 GMT -5
Thanks for that.
I re-read those 1987 JLA issues recently. I felt they still held up well. They were more character-driven than action-driven - a plus in my view - and it remains my favourite modern JLA era.
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Post by MDG on Jan 28, 2019 16:50:14 GMT -5
In several bios of Steranko, there's mention of a list of "150 storytelling innovations" he came up with in his Marvel work, and I recently listened to an interview with him where he mentions it. But damned if I can find the actual list anyplace.
Anyone know if it's been published anyplace?
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Post by brutalis on Jan 28, 2019 17:27:53 GMT -5
In several bios of Steranko, there's mention of a list of "150 storytelling innovations" he came up with in his Marvel work, and I recently listened to an interview with him where he mentions it. But damned if I can find the actual list anyplace. Anyone know if it's been published anyplace? I "found" an interview on the internet from the The Beat: the news blog of comics culture. It is called the Self-Created Man by James Romberger. All about the book he was writing called Steranko: the Self-Created man. in it he says "Just to note, I had originally counted 200 unique graphic and storytelling devices for our “Innovations” list that runs through the interview, but between Jim and I, we weeded out around a quarter of those as having been previously done by others – so Steranko was quite active in trying to not take undue credit for himself. And I retained my independence in writing the essays and assembling the book so it would have critical validity, rather than being an “approved” publication." So it may be within the actual book. looks like it was published by Ground Zero Books?!?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 15:59:55 GMT -5
Was the Spectre as omnipotent/powerful in his early appearances as he was in his later ones?
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 30, 2019 16:31:41 GMT -5
Was the Spectre as omnipotent/powerful in his early appearances as he was in his later ones? You mean in the Golden Age? I'd say yes, especially at first. When his sidekick, Percival Popp, came on board, things may have changed, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 16:39:06 GMT -5
Thanks. Yep, thinking of the Golden Age.
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Post by Farrar on Jan 30, 2019 16:50:41 GMT -5
In several bios of Steranko, there's mention of a list of "150 storytelling innovations" he came up with in his Marvel work, and I recently listened to an interview with him where he mentions it. But damned if I can find the actual list anyplace. Anyone know if it's been published anyplace? I "found" an interview on the internet from the The Beat: the news blog of comics culture. It is called the Self-Created Man by James Romberger. All about the book he was writing called Steranko: the Self-Created man. in it he says "Just to note, I had originally counted 200 unique graphic and storytelling devices for our “Innovations” list that runs through the interview, but between Jim and I, we weeded out around a quarter of those as having been previously done by others – so Steranko was quite active in trying to not take undue credit for himself. And I retained my independence in writing the essays and assembling the book so it would have critical validity, rather than being an “approved” publication." So it may be within the actual book. looks like it was published by Ground Zero Books?!? Seems like the book is a "slim volume" and its the centerpiece is the section on his "144 innovations" . There are a few reviews on Amazon www.amazon.com/Steranko-Self-Created-Man-James-Romberger/dp/0578401118I came across the book's Table of Contents: The above page -- along with a summary/review -- is from fourcolorapocalypse.wordpress.com/2018/11/10/a-true-innovator-gets-his-due-in-steranko-the-self-created-man/
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 30, 2019 22:30:08 GMT -5
As far as I can see, a lot of Steranko's so-called innovations were actually rehashed Eisner.
Cei-U! Just sayin'!
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Post by MDG on Jan 31, 2019 9:10:37 GMT -5
As far as I can see, a lot of Steranko's so-called innovations were actually rehashed Eisner. Cei-U! Just sayin'! ...or Krigstein, or Kurtzman. Wood and Ditko as well. That's why I'd love to see the list--I really don't know. I'll give him 4-page spreads and use of moire patterns, but after that...
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 31, 2019 15:34:10 GMT -5
Thanks. Yep, thinking of the Golden Age. Yeah, he was pretty much omnipotent. He stares at criminals and they die, sort of thing. Probably more powerful than Superman, though they walk it back at least by the time he is a regular figure in the JSA.
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