|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 22:34:47 GMT -5
My favorite crossovers: X-Men/Teen Titans. Batman/Captain America. JLA/Avengers. Superman/Hulk. Batman/Daredevil. Amalgam.
Would like to have: Sgt Rock/Sgt Fury. Batman/Moon Knight. JSA/Invaders. Sub-Mariner/Aquaman. Hawkeye/Green Arrow. Solar/Capt Atom. Superman/Alan Moore Supreme. Capt America/Fighting American.
And Conan/Tarzan.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 3, 2019 11:08:15 GMT -5
Maybe The Guardians Of The Galaxy with The Legion Of S-Hs would be fun to see, either old comics or movie/tv Guardians could work. If characters are too similar like Swamp Thing, Man Thing and The Heap, it could just be wacky. I usually see the parallels pretty easily, I have to figure Moon Knight was definitely Marvel's Batman with some Shadow tossed in, but I'm only just recognizing how Mockingbird with Hawkeye is so much like Black Canary with Green Arrow thanks to codystarbuck 's post. But I don't think they had any intention of that when Mockingbird was first created, not her first appearance under the name in a Marvel Team-Up. There was a Black Canary copy in the Squadron Supreme I remember, and the X-Men did meet a Legion of sorts various times (Uncanny X-Men #107 being the first) which is good enough for me. Mockingbird became Black Canary in Mark Gruenwald's Hawkeye mini-series. She infiltrates Cross technologies and runs up against Hawkeye, who learns, yet again, there is something funny going on there. Then, they end up facing various assassins for a couple of issues, before facing the guy behind it at the end and suddenly deciding to get married. It wasn't a complete copy; but, it was a definite copy of the character types. The Squadron Supreme had Golden Arrow and Lady Lark, which Gruenwald turned into a seriously messed up relationship when the Arrow uses a mind control machine (used to rehabilitate criminals) to force Lady Lark to love him. At least he faced consequences for those actions, elevating that story above Avengers #200. The Shi'ar Imperial Guard was a deliberate pastiche/homage to the Legion, created by Dave Cockrum, who made his name on the original. Once again, he tapped his Legion spin-off proposal, The Outsiders, for character designs and names as a couple of the Imperial Guard were based on characters from that proposal.
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Jan 3, 2019 17:15:16 GMT -5
...but I'm only just recognizing how Mockingbird with Hawkeye is so much like Black Canary with Green Arrow thanks to codystarbuck 's post... Hawkeye and GA and their "love connections" go back even further, IMO. I always imagine that Black Canary and Green Arrow may have been inspired in part by the earlier pairing of Black Widow and Hawkeye. Gotta love those amorous archers and fishnetted femmes
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Jan 3, 2019 21:20:51 GMT -5
I forgot to follow the fishnets!
It's funny some of those patterns that appear in both companies' characters. Like The Doom Patrol and The X-Men... a group of secretive misfits and an older guy in a wheelchair... what were the odds? Sometimes I see connections that aren't really there though... like The Hulk being Marvel's Solomon Grundy... I don't think anyone else sees that, but I could be wrong there. Cross-overs of any kind used to be more of an event, then somewhere they became so frequent as to probably deflect casual readers from buying comics.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 4, 2019 0:10:50 GMT -5
I forgot to follow the fishnets! It's funny some of those patterns that appear in both companies' characters. Like The Doom Patrol and The X-Men... a group of secretive misfits and an older guy in a wheelchair... what were the odds? Sometimes I see connections that aren't really there though... like The Hulk being Marvel's Solomon Grundy... I don't think anyone else sees that, but I could be wrong there. Cross-overs of any kind used to be more of an event, then somewhere they became so frequent as to probably deflect casual readers from buying comics. Solomon wasn't that mindless a monster, in the Golden Age. Later writers turned him into more of a Hulk, than vice versa. The Hulk is Dr Jeckyll & Mr Hyde-meets-Frankenstein. Doom Patrol and X-Men are similar in their being misfits; but, Doom Patrol was mode more into outsiders than the X-men were, at the start. It took time for the X-Men to become real outsiders. Comics has always swiped from other sources, as it was a medium founded, largely, by kids, who were finding their way. I think the Golden Age swiped a lot more from a wider variety of sources than later comics did. It became more and more incestuous as comics swiped from itself. in the early days, they stole from pulps and newspaper strips, movies and fairy tales, novels and plays and even paintings. Over time, comic stories and characters became just another refinishing of an old surface. Not everything; but, more than a minority.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Jan 4, 2019 0:46:47 GMT -5
Well, here's a quick question for everyone. Superman is generally accepted as the first Superhero where the costume and powers came together. What all do you think went into making Superman and the superhero concept generally? I'm thinking circus/vaudeville strongmen would be in there. There were a few like Sandow who were quite famous and wore costumes of tights and mostly skin-tight material, perhaps to show there was no trickery helping them in their feats.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 4, 2019 13:11:14 GMT -5
Well, here's a quick question for everyone. Superman is generally accepted as the first Superhero where the costume and powers came together. What all do you think went into making Superman and the superhero concept generally? I'm thinking circus/vaudeville strongmen would be in there. There were a few like Sandow who were quite famous and wore costumes of tights and mostly skin-tight material, perhaps to show there was no trickery helping them in their feats. The costume was standard strongman performer. You could also point, a little to pro wrestling; though, in that era, it was pretty much black trunks and boots, with maybe a ring robe for the entrance. The more flamboyant stuff came with television. For comic book costumes in general, you had the example of the pulps, with lots of cloaks and eye masks and fedoras. Zorro gave us the stylized swashbuckler look, though based on Mexican riding clothes and a bandit's mask. Pirate stories gave us the buccaneer boots. Comic strips showed the way, especially Flash Gordon, Prince Valiant, and the Phantom. The Phantom's costume was based on an executioner's clothing. Flash Gordon based a lot of it's costuming on opera, which drew from military uniforms of the 19th century, particularly Austro-Hungarian (also used in the highly influential Prisoner of Zenda). Prince Valiant gave us the medieval stylings, with chain mail and gauntlets, not to mention some of the monsters (such as Kirby's Demon). Aviation thrilled audiences, so aviator's clothing and gear was also a favorite. Look at Captain America. His look is intended to invoke a knight in armor: chain mail, gauntlets, buccaneer boots, shield. Only thing missing was a sword or lance. Stage magicians influenced tons, with capes and tuxedos, turbans and robes. As for Superman, specifically, you have the concept central to Phillip Wylie's Gladiator (superstrength, able to leap great distance, impervious to bullets), mixed with Burroughs' John Carter (lighter gravity making hero more powerful), with a bit of Wylie's When World's Collide (rocketed to another planet to survive destruction of home), some Doc Savage (physical marvel, Fortress of Solitude in name and concept), a bit of Hercules and Samson, some circus strongman costuming, and a bit of social crusading. The dual identity was most popularized in Baroness Orczy's Scarlet Pimpernel, though it exists in other literature and even myth.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Jan 4, 2019 19:25:55 GMT -5
The costume was standard strongman performer. You could also point, a little to pro wrestling; though, in that era, it was pretty much black trunks and boots, with maybe a ring robe for the entrance. The more flamboyant stuff came with television. For comic book costumes in general, you had the example of the pulps, with lots of cloaks and eye masks and fedoras. Zorro gave us the stylized swashbuckler look, though based on Mexican riding clothes and a bandit's mask. Pirate stories gave us the buccaneer boots. Comic strips showed the way, especially Flash Gordon, Prince Valiant, and the Phantom. The Phantom's costume was based on an executioner's clothing. Flash Gordon based a lot of it's costuming on opera, which drew from military uniforms of the 19th century, particularly Austro-Hungarian (also used in the highly influential Prisoner of Zenda). Prince Valiant gave us the medieval stylings, with chain mail and gauntlets, not to mention some of the monsters (such as Kirby's Demon). Aviation thrilled audiences, so aviator's clothing and gear was also a favorite. Look at Captain America. His look is intended to invoke a knight in armor: chain mail, gauntlets, buccaneer boots, shield. Only thing missing was a sword or lance. Stage magicians influenced tons, with capes and tuxedos, turbans and robes. As for Superman, specifically, you have the concept central to Phillip Wylie's Gladiator (superstrength, able to leap great distance, impervious to bullets), mixed with Burroughs' John Carter (lighter gravity making hero more powerful), with a bit of Wylie's When World's Collide (rocketed to another planet to survive destruction of home), some Doc Savage (physical marvel, Fortress of Solitude in name and concept), a bit of Hercules and Samson, some circus strongman costuming, and a bit of social crusading. The dual identity was most popularized in Baroness Orczy's Scarlet Pimpernel, though it exists in other literature and even myth. The S shield on the chest is not something too common, maybe knights in armor for that aspect too though? It got more iconic looking over time and was a pretty crude thing in the earliest Supermans I've seen. Somehow that became almost standard for all superheroes to have something on the chest with a few exceptions like Sandman, Wildcat at DC or the Sub-Mariner or the Human Torch at Timely/Marvel. So maybe the icon on the chest might be one of thing more peculiar to superheroes staring with Superman... even more so than masks. The Phantom didn't have one, but Prince Valiant did, Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers only some times, and a variety.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 5, 2019 0:22:18 GMT -5
Some of that is seen in Flash Gordon and some in Prince Valiant, via the coat of arms for the knights, especially Val's emblem.... The Phantom did have his skull emblem on his belt buckle, as well as his ring. Not on the chest; but, prominent on his costume. Plus, he had the Skull cave and skull throne, which was way cooler than the Batcave (at least until the various trophies were added to the Batcave, and the tv show design). You could also bring up things like a letterman's sweater, with school letters.
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Jan 5, 2019 14:58:07 GMT -5
The S shield on the chest is not something too common, maybe knights in armor for that aspect too though? It got more iconic looking over time and was a pretty crude thing in the earliest Supermans I've seen. Somehow that became almost standard for all superheroes to have something on the chest with a few exceptions like Sandman, Wildcat at DC or the Sub-Mariner or the Human Torch at Timely/Marvel. So maybe the icon on the chest might be one of thing more peculiar to superheroes staring with Superman... even more so than masks. The Phantom didn't have one, but Prince Valiant did, Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers only some times, and a variety. Yes, comic book scholars and theorists have written about the role, symbolism, etc. of the emblem/insignia...or as Steranko put it, the chevron. There's plenty written about it; Peter Coogan's Superhero: The Secret Origin of a Genre is a good start.
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 16, 2019 11:55:50 GMT -5
Are the Marvel Conan comics and the Marvel Savage Sword of Conan magazines separate? Like do stories overlap at all or if I pick up a run of the magazines, will I have a complete story without having to rely on the comics so much. I prefer the magazine from the few I have read and you can’t beat the covers and black and white art.
|
|
|
Post by Prince Hal on Jan 16, 2019 12:18:25 GMT -5
Are the Marvel Conan comics and the Marvel Savage Sword of Conan magazines separate? Like do stories overlap at all or if I pick up a run of the magazines, will I have a complete story without having to rely on the comics so much. I prefer the magazine from the few I have read and you can’t beat the covers and black and white art. Calling Roquefort Raider!
|
|
|
Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 16, 2019 12:39:32 GMT -5
Well, I don't have the thorough expertise of RR or a few others here, but based on my own incomplete readings of both the four-color series and Savage Sword, there's no real overlap, so you can read and enjoy the latter without ever picking up any of the color comic (and vice versa). Also, based on the material I have reprinted in the first two Savage Sword phonebooks, there's very few stories that are broken up into two or more issues - usually you get complete tales in single issues of Savage Sword.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 16, 2019 12:39:42 GMT -5
Are the Marvel Conan comics and the Marvel Savage Sword of Conan magazines separate? Like do stories overlap at all or if I pick up a run of the magazines, will I have a complete story without having to rely on the comics so much. I prefer the magazine from the few I have read and you can’t beat the covers and black and white art. Is Savage Sword out yet? I think #2 of the regular book was supposed to drop today. edit: wait, you mean the originals... I think there was one adaptation that maybe carried from on to the other, but for the most part no. Of course, they're all (allegedly) the same universe... RR's thread can certainly help you with that
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 16, 2019 12:59:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback guys!
They seem to be finding me lately. A yard sale last summer, this winter a few came my way and I won what I think was a reasonably priced auction for 50 of em at a buck a piece so I am thinking about pecking away at the run and just wanted to make sure the colour Marvel comics were not intertwined.
|
|