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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 3, 2015 7:03:19 GMT -5
I just read Starfire #1... and it's a surprisingly good comic. They somehow take the bright, naive version from the cartoon, and successful transport her into the DCU.
There's just one problem... there's no possible way that it's the same character that was previously appearing in Red Hood and the Outlaws... who was, in fact, mentioned by Arsenal in that comic.
So, my question, is, should I care? Like I said, it was a good comic, and I'll probably get the next one.. but it itches at the back of my brain that either their going to do something stupid to make it fit in (which would have a good chance to ruin the book), at some point. The could just say it's set a couple years ago...but I'm not sure that would even work.
Thoughts?
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 6, 2015 16:57:14 GMT -5
I say just roll with it, if it's good it's good.
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Post by Dr. Poison on Jul 6, 2015 17:20:27 GMT -5
I've always appreciated continuity so this new light continuity approach from DC has me a bit nervous. It's already causing confusion like in the original post above. I think that if this continues, it will drive more readers away than rope them in as DC will seem "too complicated" to some readers.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 6, 2015 18:32:42 GMT -5
I've always appreciated continuity so this new light continuity approach from DC has me a bit nervous. It's already causing confusion like in the original post above. I think that if this continues, it will drive more readers away than rope them in as DC will seem "too complicated" to some readers. I don't see that all, the only thing that will drive people away is if the books are bad. |
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Post by Dr. Poison on Jul 6, 2015 18:42:32 GMT -5
I've always appreciated continuity so this new light continuity approach from DC has me a bit nervous. It's already causing confusion like in the original post above. I think that if this continues, it will drive more readers away than rope them in as DC will seem "too complicated" to some readers. I don't see that all, the only thing that will drive people away is if the books are bad. I will agree that the quality(as perceived by the reader) of a story can help to make or break a book in a fan's eyes but if let's say the Firestorm of the Justice League is Ronnie Raymond and Jason Rusch but the Firestorm in the new solo book by Gerry Conway is Ronnie Raymond and Professor Martin Stein, that could alienate some readers as some prefer Jason and others prefer Martin. The same could be said if Wonder Woman continues dating Superman in Justice League and Superman/Wonder Woman but in her solo book starts dating Orion or Steve Trevor. Fans of a particular pairing may avoid the books that don't feature the pairing that they support. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 6, 2015 19:20:44 GMT -5
I don't see that all, the only thing that will drive people away is if the books are bad. I will agree that the quality(as perceived by the reader) of a story can help to make or break a book in a fan's eyes but if let's say the Firestorm of the Justice League is Ronnie Raymond and Jason Rusch but the Firestorm in the new solo book by Gerry Conway is Ronnie Raymond and Professor Martin Stein, that could alienate some readers as some prefer Jason and others prefer Martin. The same could be said if Wonder Woman continues dating Superman in Justice League and Superman/Wonder Woman but in her solo book starts dating Orion or Steve Trevor. Fans of a particular pairing may avoid the books that don't feature the pairing that they support. I don't think any of those would be a turn off really, it's happening to a certain extent in Batman already and the Batbooks are doing great. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 6, 2015 20:31:47 GMT -5
I think it depends how extreme it is. For instance, someone that picks up Red Hood and the Outlaws because they like Starfire is going to be disappointed. Next time, perhaps they won't try another title, since they know it's not the necessarily the same character... that kinda defeats the purpose of a shared universe.
Firestorm is a good example.. the New 52 Firestorm book bares very little resemblance to anything Gerry Conway did.. so will this new mini be a call back to his character, perhaps set in some other universe? Or will it be set in the 'DCYOU'niverse? If it's the latter, will we see him elsewhere, or will it be one of the characters that's already established?
I just don't think that what they're doing now is going to motivate anyone to try other things... which is bad marketing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 22:47:04 GMT -5
I think it depends how extreme it is. For instance, someone that picks up Red Hood and the Outlaws because they like Starfire is going to be disappointed. Next time, perhaps they won't try another title, since they know it's not the necessarily the same character... that kinda defeats the purpose of a shared universe. Firestorm is a good example.. the New 52 Firestorm book bares very little resemblance to anything Gerry Conway did.. so will this new mini be a call back to his character, perhaps set in some other universe? Or will it be set in the 'DCYOU'niverse? If it's the latter, will we see him elsewhere, or will it be one of the characters that's already established? I just don't think that what they're doing now is going to motivate anyone to try other things... which is bad marketing. Because the shared universe style of marketing has worked so well over the last 30 years to expand readership and sales? DC sales were at their peak when what happened in World's Finest had no bearing on what was going on in Superman or Action or Detective or Batman, and what Flash did in Justice League had no impact on his monthly title, then they began to push more and more "shared universe" style storytelling and the number of units sold has continually dropped for the past 30 years. All the talk of comics bouncing back the past few years focuses on the revenue made, not the units moved. There is still a significant fewer units per title being sold now than there were 30 years ago. they cost more so the revenue gap has been closed. But after 30 years of unit sales declining, maybe it is time to try a new strategy... -M |
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Post by Dr. Poison on Jul 7, 2015 5:29:23 GMT -5
I think it depends how extreme it is. For instance, someone that picks up Red Hood and the Outlaws because they like Starfire is going to be disappointed. Next time, perhaps they won't try another title, since they know it's not the necessarily the same character... that kinda defeats the purpose of a shared universe. Firestorm is a good example.. the New 52 Firestorm book bares very little resemblance to anything Gerry Conway did.. so will this new mini be a call back to his character, perhaps set in some other universe? Or will it be set in the 'DCYOU'niverse? If it's the latter, will we see him elsewhere, or will it be one of the characters that's already established? I just don't think that what they're doing now is going to motivate anyone to try other things... which is bad marketing. Because the shared universe style of marketing has worked so well over the last 30 years to expand readership and sales? DC sales were at their peak when what happened in World's Finest had no bearing on what was going on in Superman or Action or Detective or Batman, and what Flash did in Justice League had no impact on his monthly title, then they began to push more and more "shared universe" style storytelling and the number of units sold has continually dropped for the past 30 years. All the talk of comics bouncing back the past few years focuses on the revenue made, not the units moved. There is still a significant fewer units per title being sold now than there were 30 years ago. they cost more so the revenue gap has been closed. But after 30 years of unit sales declining, maybe it is time to try a new strategy... -M Does your statement account for download sales at DC in the last few years? |
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Post by Earth 2 Flash on Jul 7, 2015 6:55:40 GMT -5
Hey Wildfire 2009,
Great topic!
I think you should just enjoy the comic for every penny you spent for it and more. If there is something relatively minor in it that you don't like, appreciate, or understand --just ignore it and enjoy the rest. Comics are supposed to be fun.
Continuity is going to be revised repeatedly beyond our lifetimes anyway, right? I just pick and choose what I want to be in "my perfect little continuity" and ignore the rest.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 7, 2015 11:23:42 GMT -5
Hey Wildfire 2009, Great topic! I think you should just enjoy the comic for every penny you spent for it and more. If there is something relatively minor in it that you don't like, appreciate, or understand --just ignore it and enjoy the rest. Comics are supposed to be fun. Continuity is going to be revised repeatedly beyond our lifetimes anyway, right? I just pick and choose what I want to be in "my perfect little continuity" and ignore the rest. That's the way I look at it too, I read what I like and create my own continuity in my mind. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 7, 2015 11:39:33 GMT -5
Hey Wildfire 2009, Great topic! I think you should just enjoy the comic for every penny you spent for it and more. If there is something relatively minor in it that you don't like, appreciate, or understand --just ignore it and enjoy the rest. Comics are supposed to be fun. Continuity is going to be revised repeatedly beyond our lifetimes anyway, right? I just pick and choose what I want to be in "my perfect little continuity" and ignore the rest. That's the way I look at it too, I read what I like and create my own continuity in my mind. But then you don't know what's REAL!!! (tongue planted firmly in cheek) |
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Post by Dr. Poison on Jul 7, 2015 13:05:01 GMT -5
Hey Wildfire 2009, Great topic! I think you should just enjoy the comic for every penny you spent for it and more. If there is something relatively minor in it that you don't like, appreciate, or understand --just ignore it and enjoy the rest. Comics are supposed to be fun. Continuity is going to be revised repeatedly beyond our lifetimes anyway, right? I just pick and choose what I want to be in "my perfect little continuity" and ignore the rest.
I really like this analogy but at the same time, I think a lack of tight continuity creates confusion and/or irritation for newer readers or those that are chronic continuity enthusiasts.
Another current issue that concerns me is Aquaman and Mera. In Aquaman's solo book, Mera has it in for Aquaman for some reason and is trying to kill him plus Aquaman has an all-new look. In Justice League, everything seems as it was pre-Convergence. So when one creates a Who's Who like profile for Mera, should they list her as trying to kill Aquaman or not?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 13:07:00 GMT -5
Because the shared universe style of marketing has worked so well over the last 30 years to expand readership and sales? DC sales were at their peak when what happened in World's Finest had no bearing on what was going on in Superman or Action or Detective or Batman, and what Flash did in Justice League had no impact on his monthly title, then they began to push more and more "shared universe" style storytelling and the number of units sold has continually dropped for the past 30 years. All the talk of comics bouncing back the past few years focuses on the revenue made, not the units moved. There is still a significant fewer units per title being sold now than there were 30 years ago. they cost more so the revenue gap has been closed. But after 30 years of unit sales declining, maybe it is time to try a new strategy... -M Does your statement account for download sales at DC in the last few years? Best estimates (and this number is usually thrown out there for the public by Cunningham and the other sales VP guys at DC) are that digital sales with few exceptions come in at about 10% of print sales. So a book that is selling 50K copies in print is selling about 5K in digital, and the best selling print books are the best selling digital books. There have been a few exceptions, but most of those are Marvel (Ms. Marvel, Capt. Marvel for example) and not DC. So even with digital they are moving far fewer units than they were 30 years ago. -M |
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Post by Dr. Poison on Jul 7, 2015 13:22:11 GMT -5
Does your statement account for download sales at DC in the last few years? Best estimates (and this number is usually thrown out there for the public by Cunningham and the other sales VP guys at DC) are that digital sales with few exceptions come in at about 10% of print sales. So a book that is selling 50K copies in print is selling about 5K in digital, and the best selling print books are the best selling digital books. There have been a few exceptions, but most of those are Marvel (Ms. Marvel, Capt. Marvel for example) and not DC. So even with digital they are moving far fewer units than they were 30 years ago. -M
I'm curious as to how recent your information is? I ask this because the last time I saw anyone from DC give estimates on digital sales was at least 2 years ago and since then, I've read reports that digital sales are increasing more and more each month. While I doubt that digital sales are anywhere near the same as print sales, my guess is that 10% that Cunningham offered(which I saw him say about 2 years ago) has probably increased to around 25% by now. I, myself, have been a comic reader for almost 35 years and switched over to all digital back in October of 2013. Another friend of mine with even longer readership made the switch around the same time.
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