|
Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 5, 2019 19:18:36 GMT -5
I think the team winning a fight, or having a purpose, would probably have been more effective, but I can see that... though I'd think they'd have a pretty good idea who was popular by the letters and such.
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Feb 5, 2019 22:59:17 GMT -5
Don't know if this has been touched upon by anyone, but the reason behind the actual title of the book "X-Men" being dwarfed by other names (Professor X on #42's, Magneto on the previous issue's cover, and this trend will persist until #48) was that Marvel were hoping that billing the book differently would help in sparking some interest in it, as it was floundering. This, combined with the short-lived 'the X-Men split up!' status quo that will kick in a couple issues later, gives me the impression that they were hoping one or two of the X-Men would become the breakout character who would then take over the book altogether. Exactly. The book was floundering and tptb were searching for ways to ignite sales. The X-Men was one of the Marvel series I was reading back then, along with the Avengers and FF. I liked Marvel's team books and the interplay between all the characters. So I hated the focus on single characters, here in #44 and then #45 (Cyclops). Then when #46 rolled around and the X-Men broke up I cursed the fates. Luckily someone at Marvel decided that wasn't a good idea either and the X-Men reunited in #49.
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Feb 5, 2019 23:10:37 GMT -5
X-Men 44- Apparently, Quicksilver could very briefly fly? Yes, Pietro discovered he could "fly" (for short distances) back in Avengers #43. To put it into chronological context, Avengers #43 was published at the same time as X-Men #35. But he didn't fly very often--besides Avengers#43 and X-Men #44, he was shown flying in Avengers #45 and Avengers #46. Those seem to be the only times he did so, at least during the Silver Age (which is when I was reading comics).
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Feb 5, 2019 23:44:33 GMT -5
Although I've never heard of him saying so, I suspect Roy Thomas was displaying his love of Golden Age DC by giving Quicksilver the power of flight: super-speedster Johnny Quick could fly. It also gave Pietro, who had only a fraction of Flash's speed, an extra power to set him apart.
Cei-U! I summon the running shoes!
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Feb 6, 2019 0:01:31 GMT -5
^^^ And then when Pietro returned to the Avengers in #75 (after leaving the team in #53), Roy came up with another interesting way to showcase Pietro's speed: he asked Buscema to draw Pietro as if Quickie were a human pinball "bouncing and careening off objects" à la Jack Cole's Quicksilver (RT interview AE #15). Pinball Pietro lasted longer than his flying phase
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 6, 2019 0:05:54 GMT -5
^^^ And then when Pietro returned to the Avengers in #75 (after leaving the team in #53), Roy came up with another interesting way to showcase Pietro's speed: he asked Buscema to draw Pietro as if Quickie were a human pinball "bouncing and careening off objects" à la Jack Cole's Quicksilver (RT interview AE #15). Pinball Pietro lasted longer than his flying phase That's interesting... I haven't really read much of that period... I can see that working well though.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Feb 6, 2019 1:11:40 GMT -5
Don't know if this has been touched upon by anyone, but the reason behind the actual title of the book "X-Men" being dwarfed by other names (Professor X on #42's, Magneto on the previous issue's cover, and this trend will persist until #48) was that Marvel were hoping that billing the book differently would help in sparking some interest in it, as it was floundering. This, combined with the short-lived 'the X-Men split up!' status quo that will kick in a couple issues later, gives me the impression that they were hoping one or two of the X-Men would become the breakout character who would then take over the book altogether. Also for Tales Of Suspense on the last few issues at the end they had Captain America in large letters on the cover on top of Iron Man much smaller underneath, and then Iron Man the next issue with Cap smaller under his large lettering. They did the same with the two features in Tales To Astonish and Strange Tales as well right at the end.
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Feb 6, 2019 16:47:26 GMT -5
^^^ And then when Pietro returned to the Avengers in #75 (after leaving the team in #53), Roy came up with another interesting way to showcase Pietro's speed: he asked Buscema to draw Pietro as if Quickie were a human pinball "bouncing and careening off objects" à la Jack Cole's Quicksilver (RT interview AE #15). Pinball Pietro lasted longer than his flying phase That's interesting... I haven't really read much of that period... I can see that working well though. Here are a couple of examples from that time, art by J. Buscema & Tom Palmer. Note, when Pietro returned to the team (Avengers #75) he'd swapped his classic green costume for the light blue version.
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Feb 7, 2019 9:54:24 GMT -5
X-Men 44- Am I missing something with Red Raven? Just Roy Thomas trying to connect extra dots? He seems to have no real place in the MU (he'd make much more sense in the DCU).. he's not really used again for years (a quick fight with Namor, a bit in Thomas' Liberty Legion, then increasingly silly retcons in the 90s and 00s). Most likely Thomas was just a fan of the character. Rascally Roy seemingly brought back every Golden Age character (at both Marvel and DC) into what was then the modern age.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Feb 7, 2019 16:16:52 GMT -5
Most likely Thomas was just a fan of the character. Rascally Roy seemingly brought back every Golden Age character (at both Marvel and DC) into what was then the modern age. OT, but, I wonder did he ever bring back Rock Man? I saw a page from Mystic Comics of Rock Man U.S.A. (Underground Secret Agent) by Basil Wolverton and thought that it looked pretty cool. Also Bill Everett's The Fin looked cool and I don't know if he ever made a comeback in modern times either. I think I saw a b&w reprint of Red Raven #1 once, there was someone doing those in the '70s, sometimes with color covers but always b&w insides. I liked the cover of #46. That would've gotten 12 cents out of me for sure. #42 got a few dollars out of me as the first '60s back issue of any kind I think I had ever bought.
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Feb 7, 2019 17:13:05 GMT -5
X-Men 44- Am I missing something with Red Raven? Just Roy Thomas trying to connect extra dots? He seems to have no real place in the MU (he'd make much more sense in the DCU).. he's not really used again for years (a quick fight with Namor, a bit in Thomas' Liberty Legion, then increasingly silly retcons in the 90s and 00s). Most likely Thomas was just a fan of the character. Rascally Roy seemingly brought back every Golden Age character (at both Marvel and DC) into what was then the modern age. Not only that, but the next X-Men issue #45, showcases Quicksilver (in a battle with Cyclops). I know wildfire2099 will review #45 soon, but I just wanted to note that at one point in the late 1960s Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith pitched a proposed series about a new team. This new team was to have included--wait for it--Quicksilver, Red Raven, and believe or not, Bucky, who at the time was dead and who'd last been seen in Avengers #56, which was on sale a few months after the X-Men issues wildfire is currently reviewing, and which was written by--Roy! (Though I tend to think it would really have been Rick Jones as Bucky, since RJ dons Bucky's costume in 1969). Source: Comic Book Artist #2, Roy Thomas and BWS interviews. So Roy had plans for RR, but they were shelved when the proposed series wasn't given the go-ahead.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 18:16:17 GMT -5
That's interesting... I haven't really read much of that period... I can see that working well though. Here are a couple of examples from that time, art by J. Buscema & Tom Palmer. Note, when Pietro returned to the team (Avengers #75) he'd swapped his classic green costume for the light blue version. Thanks for sharing Quicksilver "Pinball Effect" ... I totally forgot about it and it was an cool "effect" here and totally different too.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 8, 2019 10:07:45 GMT -5
X-Men #45 "When Mutants Clash" Friedrich/Heck/Roth/Tartaglione Plot: Cyclops decides Angel is taking too long, and breaks out on his own. He decides Jean isn't helpful enough to save, and wanders around Magneto's fortress looking for Hank and Bobby. He finds Quicksilver first, and the fight is on! Meanwhile, Toad reports that Cyclops has escaped, and Magneto rages at the messenger... even attacking Toad. Scarlet Witch hears the commotion and is sad she can't help. Magneto decides to make sure Pietro is worth of his new kingdom, and just watches the fight rather than helping. Angel reaches NYC.. determined to bring the Avengers. Quicksilver tries to talk Cyclops into changing sides.. he explains that he's not evil, he just wants mutants to have their own country... Cyke thinks on it a bit but then realizes he can't possibly be on the same side as Magneto (if only he remembered this moment later in life....) After their chat (which is witnessed by a mysterious arrow that really isn't all that mysterious to anyone who has read an Avengers comic), Quicksilver gets the upper hand, but Cyclops take a last desparate shot and gets lucky and hits him.. .just as the Avengers arrive. To be continued! Plot: B History: B (lots of good future character development) Art: B+ Notes: - This is like 5 steps back in the Scott-Jean relationship.. he LEAVES HER IN THE DUNGEON?!? Really? - I did love the conversation between Quicksilver and Cyclops.. it's a theme that they go back to again and again over the years of course, but show those shades of gray (even when Magneto is show as pretty darn evil at this point) is why Marvel is great - Magneto contradicts himself when he blames Toad for the escape.. just last issue Toad wanted to kill the X-Men, but Mags sides with Pietro and locked them away instead.. he also specifically said Quicksilver was responsible for their security. I guess we're going for Toad is such a lackey he never argues? - Speaking of Toad.. I love his facial expressions.. .well done on the art there! Magneto has some good ones too. - One does wonder why if Cyclops could wait until he was 'powered up' and break out, why he sent Angel away in the first place. Also, last issue they were all in the same room.. now they're spread all over the castle. - That Avengers splash isn't all that impressive.. this is probably the lowest powered team since Cap's Kooky Quartet... yet the X-Men have to call them for help? 'And the mob cried.. Vengeance' Friedrich/Tuska/Verooten Plot: Cyclops arrives to break Bobby Drake out of jail, but Bobby doesn't want to go. They fight, using up all their mutant juice, and now the mob is ready to finish them both off. To be Continued! Notes: -Poor strategy by Scott here... why lead off with 'just come on'. No explaining about the Professor, the school, nothing. Then after Bobby doesn't blindly follow him, he decides maybe talking would have been good. I guess those leadship skills develop later. - Nice job giving us Bobby in the more 'Snowman' version of himself
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Feb 8, 2019 16:40:55 GMT -5
Most likely Thomas was just a fan of the character. Rascally Roy seemingly brought back every Golden Age character (at both Marvel and DC) into what was then the modern age. OT, but, I wonder did he ever bring back Rock Man? I saw a page from Mystic Comics of Rock Man U.S.A. (Underground Secret Agent) by Basil Wolverton and thought that it looked pretty cool. Also Bill Everett's The Fin looked cool and I don't know if he ever made a comeback in modern times either. I think I saw a b&w reprint of Red Raven #1 once, there was someone doing those in the '70s, sometimes with color covers but always b&w insides. I liked the cover of #46. That would've gotten 12 cents out of me for sure. #42 got a few dollars out of me as the first '60s back issue of any kind I think I had ever bought. I have to admit, I've never heard of Rock Man. I had to look him up. According to comicbookdb.com, Thomas did not bring back Rock Man. How did he miss that?
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 11, 2019 1:00:05 GMT -5
Avengers #53 Thomas/Buscema/Tuska 'In Battle Joined' Plot: The Avengers arrive at Magneto's secret lair, and find Cyclops standing over Quicksilver. Of course, they had spied on him earlier, so now they're confused... so they demand answers. Cyke doesn't like their attitude, and decides surely they're robots or brainwashed since Hercules isn't there and he doesn't recognize 'the Panther'. He fights, and holds his own enough to escape. We get a flashback of Angel breaking in to Avengers mansion to warn them. They are a bit untrusting since he broke in, but go with him anyway. When they arrive, they find a bug planted on him, and tie him up to see what's what. After Cyclops escapes, Hawkeye, Goliath, and Panther bicker about who's in charge, and see more interested in that then finding Magneto. In his secret HQ room, Mags is very pleased by this, and monologues to Toad how it was all his plan, which smacking him around some more. He breaks out a gadget to mind control the X-Men (which was, again, all part of the plan). Scott, meanwhile has rescued his teammates, just in time to be brainwashed. The Brainwashed X-Men fight the Avengers, and it's a Roy Thomas 'pick-your-partner' special.. no team work or interaction involved. The X-Men have the upper hand until the Panther realized the Avengers are holding back, and tells them to cut it out. As they mop up, we switch back to Magneto, who is slapping Toad around some more and evilly monologuing.. he goes so far as to have concussed Scarlet Witch protect the poor guy. Angel appears, and it turns out the Avengers were faking all the mistrust, and they burst in. Magneto drops a ton of debris on them, and is ready to blow them up, but Toad turns coat and throws the switch to blow the whole island instead.. he's taken all he can stand, and he can't stand no more! Everyone goes to their various escapes.. apparently Magneto build a non-metal airplane 'to prove he could', so when he tries to get away with the other brotherhood members, he fails and falls perhaps to his death. The good guys leave friends wondering if they'll ever see Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver again. Plot: B- History: B Art: A Notes: - Combat-wise, the X-Men fare far better than they ever do in their own book. Those there were a few wonky things in the big fight.. like how Wasp could 'evade' Jean's TK... did someone forget the dotted lines on the page were just for use readers? - This was part of the short lived 'Panther' (no Black) where he had a 1/2 mask instead of a full one. Apparently, alot of the swapping had to do with Marvel being concerned about sales with a black hero (at least according to Brian Cronin), but it comes off in retrospect as just a weird blip. - While I don't find the one on one fight scene thing very entertaining, it does do a good job giving each character a way to show you who they are and what they do, so that's probably the point. - The whole 'ha-ha, you're falling for my plan' then the good guys coming in and going 'ha-ha no we didn't!' was very DC to me, and felt super weird in a Marvel comic. - Buscema continues the great facials for Magneto that the regular book has, which did remind me of Conan a bit, but well, you know.. - The internet tells me another famous letter! This one from Tony Isabella (nothing to exciting, just a general fan letter) That brings us to the end of Epic collection vol. 2! Luckily, 3 just arrived today, so hopefully I'll be able to continue until I get bored again!
|
|